Salome Schillack (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to episode number 154 of The Shine Show. Today's episode is called from luxury interior design to successful online course creators with Sarah Cates of House of Funk. It is such a delight for me when I get to interview our amazing, incredible, successful, ambitious, wonderful women and men who just do big things in this world. And you're going to hear me talk to Sarah about their previous launch, but not just about their previous launch, about how they started, what they've learned along the way and how they're scaling all the way up and up and up to multi six-figure launches now.

Salome Schillack (00:42):
Sarah Cates is the director of operations at the boutique interior design firm, House of Funk. These days, her main focus is running the company's B2B offering, the Interior Design Standard, an online course that gives interior designers a master plan for building their businesses. When Sarah is not keeping House of Funk running smoothly, she can be found chasing her two cats and experimenting with new recipes. So let's jump in and listen to my interview with Sarah Cates of House of Funk.

Salome Schillack (01:20):
Giving up your time and freedom to make money is so 2009. Hi, I'm your host Salome Schillack. And I help online course creators launch, grow, and scale their businesses with Facebook and Instagram ads so that they can make more money and have an even bigger impact in the world. If you are ready to be inspired, to dream bigger, launch sooner, and grow your online business faster, then tune in because you are ready to shine, and this is The Shine Show. Sarah, welcome to The Shine Show.

Sarah Cates (01:57):
Hi, thank you so much for having me on.

Salome Schillack (02:00):
I'm so happy you are here. I say to you guys sometimes, I love your business so much, I want to rub my face in it. Really, I love it that much. I am in love with the business that you and Sandra have created. So just tell the listeners really quickly, where did it start? How did you guys decide you want to do online courses as well? And then we're going to unpack where it is now.

Sarah Cates (02:28):
Yeah, for sure. So Sandra had been running and still does run a very successful luxury design firm. So I came on in 2016, and we realized we really need to add video marketing to our marketing strategy. So Facebook Live had just come out recently at that time and so that was our gateway to video. And so my coworker and I were talking and we were saying, "How are we going to get Sandra on camera? Anyone's going to be hesitant to go on video." But Sandra's so charismatic. She's so so good on camera. So we were so lucky that we had a founder and CEO who's just amazing at that stuff. So we had this idea that we would pop open a bottle of wine every Wednesday, because she loves wine too, and talk about interior design, just like for homeowners, how to design your home, the tradespeople you should bring in, just so they could get to know Sandra, and we would bring in more clientele that way.

Sarah Cates (03:39):
Well, within six to 12 months we had interior designers coming to the lives and asking her business questions. So for me I was like, "Okay, cool. All right, moving on." Whereas Sandra, she has entrepreneurship, it's in her blood. She comes from a line of entrepreneurs, and this gets her brain start rolling on ideas. Then she was invited to some conferences to speak about the business of design as well. So she went to this one conference and she had a line of designers after waiting to ask her questions about how she runs her business. So this continues to happen and she comes to us and she's like, "Guys, I think there's something here, we need to think about this."

Sarah Cates (04:29):
And so I'm pretty sure she had the idea of creating the program, the digital course, and this is completely new to us. We had never heard of digital courses. She had done B-School, so that was her only concept of a digital course, with Marie Forleo. And so we started building it. We had no email list. So we pivoted this live show, we call it Design Tips, and started just targeting interior designers and started creating lead magnets, now frontier designers, all while running our full service design firm at the same time. And we launched in March 2020. So we were actually due to launch April 2020, the world flipped upside down and we had designers reaching out saying, "We know you're going to release this program, can you release it now? Because we're going to be home for a few weeks." Not knowing that we're going to be home for much longer. And so we cranked it out. We were running really long nights, but we really wanted to get it out there. And we did. Again, we didn't know anything about digital courses. So our open cart was like two to three weeks long.

Salome Schillack (05:46):
Oh, that would've been exhausting.

Sarah Cates (05:48):
Yes. Looking back, it was kind of crazy, but we've learned a lot of things since then. So we launched to a list less than 1000 and we still hit six figures, welcomed in an amazing class of designers. And it was just such an awesome feeling. Because that first launch, you just never know what's going to happen. And the world was so crazy. But that is how we got into the digital course world.

Salome Schillack (06:17):
That is amazing. I love hearing stories about people who launched for the first time during COVID. And no one could have predicted what a profitable period that would've been for online courses. We all went into this crazy what's going to happen? What is happening to the world? What's going to happen to my business? What's going to happen? Pivot became the word of the day.

Sarah Cates (06:46):
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:06:47] exactly.

Salome Schillack (06:47):
But for our clients, and even I launched [ALISTA 00:06:52], my online course, for the first time in March 2020 as well, not knowing, literally the week when everyone got sent home. And I remember that fear and I remember that uncertainty and everyone I know who launched then did really well. And the rest of 2020 was such a profitable year for online courses. And then in 2021, it became a whole other story with Apple bringing in iOS and all other changes. But so your first launch was a six-figure launch and it was a very successful, and you loved the students that you brought in from a list of 1000 people?

Sarah Cates (07:34):
Yes. Yes. And they were-

Salome Schillack (07:36):
Holy bananas.

Sarah Cates (07:38):
They are our OGs, we call them, our original members. And we were just at a conference where we ran into a bunch of them and just hearing their success stories from implementing our program even to this day is just so awesome to see.

Salome Schillack (07:57):
I love that. I love that. So after that, did you know that there's a lot of things you don't know or how did you unpack that launch and learn, oh, we've got to go and learn all these things, or what came next?

Sarah Cates (08:15):
So we looked at the data and then I think what we started doing, I think I found Amy Porterfield's podcast and started taking as much as I could just from the podcast. Then I found your podcast, started taking as much as I could from your podcast. And so then we launched two more times. So our second launch, we more than doubled our sales from our first launch.

Salome Schillack (08:38):
Wow. [inaudible 00:08:40] hold on. When was this?

Sarah Cates (08:42):
This was fall 2020.

Salome Schillack (08:45):
Okay. All right. Always have to remind me the month. Americans talk in seasons. We don't talk in seasons.

Sarah Cates (08:50):
Oh, sorry, September 2020.

Salome Schillack (08:55):
It's the weirdest thing for me when you guys speak in seasons.

Sarah Cates (08:59):
That's so funny.

Salome Schillack (09:01):
September. Yeah, and I go, "Really? Is it is everybody? Like everybody speaks in seasons?" Okay. September. So about six months later?

Sarah Cates (09:11):
Yeah. Six months later we doubled it. And so I think really it was... Our list grew quite substantially during that previous launch. So we had all these warm leads. Sandra's still going to speaking events. It's still very all organic at that point. And then we launched again in the spring, but that was March or April, we launched again, again, another successful launch. Then we launched again, so our fourth launch, and that is when we saw our first dip in sales. And again, still welcoming in amazing designers. But from a business standpoint, when you see that first step, you go [inaudible 00:10:01] and you're like, "Well, we got to look at what's going on here." And so we were looking at the data and based on my research from just every digital course marketing and what people are saying, you need to grow your email list.

Sarah Cates (10:18):
And our list was not growing enough to keep up the momentum that we were hoping for in our sales. So at that point, I think after the third launch, between the third and the fourth launch, Sandra and I enrolled in Digital Course Academy. And you had a bonus lesson in that season, all about how to set up your first webinar ads. So in the back of my mind during all these launches, I'm like, "We have to add in ads, but it's so incredibly daunting." And I love tech. I've never been scared of tech and Facebook ads scared the crap out of me. So I took your mini lesson, which was so thorough and exactly what I needed as someone who was very scared and fearful of this, you walked us through step by step, exactly how to set up everything up, how to write your copy, graphics that work well. And we implemented that and we ran ads. And I was just happy that we successfully ran ads, but looking back, I could have tracked our data better.

Sarah Cates (11:32):
And coming out of that, as much as I knew, I still felt very ill-equipped as someone also who is trying to run so many other things within the business. So after we had that dip in our sales, Sandra and I both knew we needed to add in a paid ads element. So we went and interviewed a couple of agencies, including a Shine And Succeed, and it was an eye-opening experience. But also one more thing, iOS was coming down the pipe, and that also, I was just like, "Why are we going to try to do this DIY when there are people out there who are so good at it and who could bring in all the expertise?" And Sandra had a moment last year or two within her design business where she was like, "We need to hire the experts. We need to hire the HR expert. We need to hire the strategy and scheduling expert." And I was like, "How can we implement that into our digital course business?"

Salome Schillack (12:40):
I love that she thinks that way. And that's her luxury background. It's just you got to hire the best people if you want the best job done.

Sarah Cates (12:49):
Yes. And we're very adamant about doing our research and getting referrals and just taking in as much as we can. So the ads element was just as important and rigorous as anything else we do in terms of hiring or bringing on a new contractor or agent. So we had done those interviews and I was just so drawn to you and your brand, your mission, and just how welcoming. And I just felt so taken care of when we spoke.

Salome Schillack (13:24):
Oh, that makes me so happy.

Sarah Cates (13:26):
And I had gone through your mini training. I was like, "If this is anything like what she could do for us, if we bring her on to our team and we work together, then it's a no-brainer to go with Salome and Shine And Succeed." And I'm sure we'll talk about how we worked together in this past launch, but that's how we came to the point of wanting to start ads.

Salome Schillack (13:50):
That's fantastic. So I want to just point out something here. Ads, it's like you touched on the tech and how you took the mini course. You took the bonus that I did in Amy Porterfield's Digital Course Academy. And it helped you enough to be able to know which buttons to press, which levers to pull, how to put the copy together. If Facebook ads was a cake, you had the ingredients for the cake and you had the basic recipe. And so you could do a basic chocolate cake, right? But you don't want to do a basic chocolate cake.

Sarah Cates (14:30):
No.

Salome Schillack (14:30):
You want to become a pastry chef. And learning to do it yourself and learning how to make a basic cake was enough for you to get you to a point where you then went, "But hang on, we want pastry chefs and we don't want to be pastry chefs. We want to hire pastry chefs, because that's the level we want to do it at." And when you get to that point, you realize, oh, okay, there's more to ads than just pressing buttons, pulling levers. There's so much more to it than just the pick, because I'm sure we are going to talk about some of the marketing stuff, but some of the initial conversations we had in the beginning was, okay, well, how do you... If we need you guys, we know you need to build your list. We know you need to build your list, but I'm not just going to whack on a bunch of list building ads.

Salome Schillack (15:25):
I want to make sure if you're putting money into ads, that's going to bring people into your email list, that they're the right people. And so we have to build this foundation right to know that we have the right things in place to track, whether these people actually become buyers in the end, because you guys started building your list like what, in January? And you launched in March, April?

Sarah Cates (15:49):
Yes.

Salome Schillack (15:51):
So there's four months between that. So how do you know the money you spent in January is actually paying off for you? There's some foundational things you need in place. And then also, and we can talk more about this too, is that customer journey, that identifying your most profitable customer journey and being able to go, "Well, is every cent that I put into ads is it actually coming back to me, and how do I know that it's coming back to me? And am I taking people on a deliberate relationship building journey where they go from saying yes to my small thing, my lead magnet, to saying yes to my big thing, my paid offer and being excited about it?"

Salome Schillack (16:31):
So I want to just say kudos to you for taking on the tech, for starting your own ads, and then also for knowing when to hand it off and knowing when to just step away, and then how you guys have been so incredibly open in guidance has just been absolutely phenomenal for me, it's made such a joy to work with you guys. So let's go back a little bit and talk about the marketing decisions we had to make back when we started, which would've been the end of last year. What were some of the marketing things that you guys were wondering about, that you knew list building will help you with but that we still had to figure out as we went?

Sarah Cates (17:18):
So I think the big thing, like you mentioned, was how are we going to get quality leads on our email list? And another thing we realized, that you helped us realize, was we were launching to a very warm list. So whenever we opened our doors for enrollment, we had a lot of people chomping at the bit to get in because they had been with us for a long time. And then it felt like we had launched now to our warm leads quite a bit. And then we saw that dip in sales. So we were wondering what our first ad would be and that's when you were like, "Well, you don't want just any ad, what's-"

Salome Schillack (18:01):
You guys had like 750 lead magnets.

Sarah Cates (18:05):
Yeah. We had so many. It really felt like 750, that is accurate. And there's nothing more relieving than someone saying, "You only need a few really quality lead magnets." So we talked through the customer journey and realized that we wanted to come out with a really killer quiz, followed up with a really awesome guide that is totally related to the quiz. And then that all flows into our free module and our webinar and obviously our program.

Salome Schillack (18:42):
Okay. So we unpacked that kind of customer journey a little bit. And then we started running list building ads and the list building we're going great. Tell me a bit about your style of launching. Do you guys do traditional webinar, video series? Talk a little bit about this so that the listeners can get an idea of what are the mechanics of a multi six-figure launch?

Sarah Cates (19:05):
Ooh. Okay. So I'm not too familiar with the different types, but what we do though is our big strategy is the webinars. So we used to do three, this launch, we tried two in the front of our launch. We open our cart from Wednesday to Wednesday typically. And then we also have a great follow up, email series to the webinar, sales emails for anyone who didn't sign up for the webinar and then a great cart close series. And then we also do a couple of Facebook Lives within that week. And then leading up to launch, we do our pre-launch runway and we go live on Facebook for 12 weeks and we email that content out weekly as well.

Salome Schillack (20:01):
I love that. So you're warming up your list and you're warming up your socials and you're letting everyone else know. Do you guys announce when you go into your pre-launch phase, those 12 weeks? Do you guys announce to them when your court is going to open or when your webinars are going to be? Do you tell them your course is coming?

Sarah Cates (20:22):
So we will, if it comes up naturally in what Sandra is talking about on her show, in terms of just enrollment, she will say doors open again in X, Y, Z, and you can reserve your spot now.

Salome Schillack (20:37):
I love that.

Sarah Cates (20:39):
We don't talk about the webinar until a week before. The week before the first webinar. So [inaudible 00:20:48] once we start ads is when we start talking about it at all. Just so it feels fresh and new and someone doesn't enroll or register for the workshop that isn't for another three months.

Salome Schillack (21:00):
Yeah. And I think the important thing there is the workshop, the webinar is the vehicle to convert them to sales. And we want to be upfront about this all the time. So when we're in that pre-launch sequence, we're not secretively adding value to them with the intent of then sneakily put them on the webinar and sneakily selling them, to which I kind of sometimes feel like people have this sort of judgment that they... "That's why they don't want to sell on a webinar or that's why they feel like they have to teach so much on a webinar."

Salome Schillack (21:38):
And I go, "No, let's just tell them from day dot, we have this amazing, awesome program that you will love if you're here right now and having this conversation with me, the court will be opening again. We will be opening the doors again on this time." And then you just have conversations about whatever the things are that's coming up and bringing them back to the program is coming. And I love that you guys then within a week of it go, "Well, here's the more information about the webinar. And if you want to find out about the program, join the webinar and come and learn so that you know if it is right for you or not." That's so good.

Sarah Cates (22:17):
Yes, exactly.

Salome Schillack (22:19):
And tell me a little bit, let's talk a little bit, one of your best and cleverest, and I just look at that and I go, "This is such good marketing," is the free module. You guys give away a free module of your course, where did that idea come from and which module, how do you choose which module and why do you think it converts so high?

Sarah Cates (22:44):
Those are amazing questions. So we called it the demo module when we were first creating the program. And I cannot tell you for the life of me where we came up with that idea. But I've been feeling it was probably Sandra's idea to show them what the inside of the program could look like. And so what we did is we took one of our most popular concepts, which was... And this is also a presentation she would give at actual events. So we knew it was popular and well received. And so we turned it into this digital presentation and it is how she presents her process to a potential client on the interior design side.

Salome Schillack (23:40):
I love it.

Sarah Cates (23:40):
And so we put that out there and that was the first thing we would start marketing around when we first launched. And people loved it and we called it the demo module. Then years later, we're like, "Demo makes no sense. Let's call it [crosstalk 00:23:57]."

Salome Schillack (23:57):
It's not very enticing.

Sarah Cates (23:59):
Yeah, exactly. We got much better with our marketing copy, so we changed it to the free module. It actually lived on our sales page for a long time too, so they could opt into that. So that was also a big list builder when we were doing organic leads because that just lives there all year round [crosstalk 00:24:21].

Salome Schillack (24:21):
I love that. So instead of saying, "Join the wait list," you're saying, "While you're waiting, get the demo module"?

Sarah Cates (24:30):
Yeah, exactly.

Salome Schillack (24:30):
I love that.

Sarah Cates (24:32):
Exactly. So now we took it off the sales pitch, because we just wanted the one call to action, which was to reserve their spot. But we're thinking of new and different ways to add it into our lead nurtures and to our warmer leads and because it's so so good. And I just looked at our data, over 50% of our members take the free module. And there's like a small cell at the end, like our webinar, so they can see the program and it's also, it lives in our program provider so they can see all the modules, they just can't click on [crosstalk 00:25:16].

Salome Schillack (25:16):
They just don't have access to it. I love that.

Sarah Cates (25:18):
Yeah. But that really gives them a feel of what a digital course is, in case they've never even heard of what a digital program could be.

Salome Schillack (25:30):
Right. And I love how it creates inclusion for them, because now they're already included in your world. They're not on the outside looking in, they're already on the inside and they just need to walk through a few other doors. They're already coming to your house. They just don't have access to the whole house yet. They're just in the kitchen.

Sarah Cates (25:56):
Yeah, exactly. And we also have always been so... Sandra has always been so adamant about giving as much as she can for free. And the standard really came out of designers asking [crosstalk 00:26:12].

Salome Schillack (26:11):
Standard is the course name?

Sarah Cates (26:13):
Yes. The Interior Design Standard, it came from designers were asking her, "Can I get a copy of your contract? Can I get a copy of how you price the services? Can I get your full service process template?" And she built her business very holistically. So nothing... You really can't have the contract about having our process because it doesn't make sense about it. Same way with how we price. And that is the idea of why she didn't come out with just like a $500 contract. She really wanted to equip designers and she knew, if I just get my contract, it's not going to be enough. And so that's where the program came from too, is she wanted to give her entire business model to designers because she really wish she had that same resource when she started out. So through our free content, through our newsletters, the Design Tips, we give and give and give as much as we can. And the tools now to take the strategy that we talk about all year long is the program.

Salome Schillack (27:23):
I love that so much. So this year you started building your list, you went into your pre-launch, you had the free module and your results. Are we back up on where we were?

Sarah Cates (27:37):
Yes. Yes. We're up significantly, back to a few launches ago, we hit our sales goals. So now again, we have hundreds of designers in our membership and just could not be more thankful for your team and your help in... Oh my gosh, I didn't know when we were partnering out that we would be able... That you'd giving us as much insight on marketing in general for digital programs. And so that was just so pivotal along with the amazing ads that your team created and put out for us. So it totally paid off and we are just so excited to dig into the data because we haven't done our team meeting of the post-launch, but we're super excited.

Salome Schillack (28:30):
Yeah, I am too. And I will say, I saw some preliminary results yesterday and we're not done unpacking it because it takes a while to unpack all this data, but I'm very excited to dive deep into it. And you say you're grateful for the marketing insight that we shared and I'm just so grateful for you guys for being so open to learn, because this is our jam. We just love this. And I teach all of the students inside the launch lounge, inside our membership, where we teach all the things that I taught you guys. I teach them that it's like two hands and the two hands have to hold each other because traffic is just per ads, is just traffic. It is just more people. You just bring more people. But more people does not result in money.

Salome Schillack (29:29):
Good marketing, good funnels, good understanding of taking people on a deliberate journey from where you first meet them to all the way where they become your paying student. That is what makes traffic and conversion come together. That is what makes ads and launches come together. And when we get to work with a client who is so open to learning like you guys, it just makes me so excited. And that's why I say I want to rub my face in your business because I feel so privileged to get to play with other people's businesses this way. And my team is amazing at ads, and when we can bring my team and your team together, that's when the real magic happens. So that's fantastic. So now you guys have your whole new student cohort. How long did they stay in your course?

Sarah Cates (30:26):
It's lifetime access. We drip the modules out once a week, for six weeks and they're in a private Facebook group for two months. And then they get merged into the bigger Facebook group with all of our standard members.

Salome Schillack (30:42):
I love that.

Sarah Cates (30:43):
And that's free to them. Well, it's part of their purchase. And then they're in there for lifetime access along with getting the content for lifetime access too.

Salome Schillack (30:55):
I love that. That's fantastic. And what is next for you guys? What's the next iteration of this look like, or are you still holding off on making decisions about that?

Sarah Cates (31:09):
We are. So Sandra's an idea machine. She is a true visionary and it is so fun whenever we go away, we have awesome brainstorms because the possibilities are truly endless. And then we come back to our desk and we're like, "Okay, there's a lot to do." So we can't quite run with that stuff yet. So we are really taking the time these next six months to, A, look at ad performance, look at our marketing performance and general things like that. But also doing a lot of intake with our membership, asking them to provide us feedback, seeing how we can strengthen the standard as a program. We always feel like there's things to better in the program. It's never completed to us. And so we are really just listening, in listen mode, and we're excited to roll out some updates and keep it going.

Salome Schillack (32:11):
I am excited to hear all about that. Well, Sarah, you guys are just a joy and I want to say, I'm just going to put this out there and I will put it out there on the show so that it's public and everyone knows it. But I am looking forward very much to seeing you guys do your first seven-figure launch. And I don't think it's far off and I don't think it is a very unrealistic, I think it's... I have seen it a few times. I have been on the ad side of it a few times and I will tell you, you guys are on the absolute perfect path and on the right trajectory.

Salome Schillack (32:47):
So I'm very excited to see you guys get to seven-figure launches. That would be fantastic. And all those amazing designers that you're helping building luxury business and those beautiful homes, all the beauty you're creating. I love it. So congratulations to you and congratulations to Sandra and your whole team. You guys have done a phenomenal job. You guys are just open to learning all the time and you're just taking in so much. It is so rewarding for me seeing what you guys are creating. So congratulations.

Sarah Cates (33:24):
Well, thank you so much. That means the worlds coming from you. So I really appreciate it.

Salome Schillack (33:29):
Wonderful. And thank you for sharing all of this with The Shine Show listeners. If you have any questions from today's interview or if you want to share some feedback or just if you want me to... If you have any ideas that you want to share from today's podcast, just hit me up on Instagram, send me a DM, and I'd love to hear thoughts about this launch from you as well. And I hope that Sarah's story and Sandra's story really inspires you to know what is possible for you, know that you don't need to know it all to have a six-figure launch. You just have to take action and start somewhere and create something and you can create the success as well. Sarah, can you tell everyone where can they learn more about all of your business, the businesses, Sandra Funk, and the Standard and the House of Funk and all of the things that you guys are so good at?

Sarah Cates (34:33):
Yes. So you can check out our interior design business, houseoffunk.com. And then there's a to the trade tab there, so if you click that button, that'll take you straight to our digital program, which is interiordesignstandard.com. And then we're also on Instagram, houseoffunkdesign.

Salome Schillack (34:51):
And there's some beautiful images on Instagram. And if you are an aspiring interior designer, please go and check them out. Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate you being here.

Sarah Cates (35:02):
Thank you.

Salome Schillack (35:03):
Well, there you have it, my friends. I trust that this has inspired you to know that if you started well out of the gate and maybe after starting strong, things didn't quite go as smoothly as you hoped it would, or it didn't grow as fast as you would, I want you to just take comfort in what you heard us talk about today. It's never a straight path. It's also not an up and up and up sequence. It can be an up and up and down and down and up and down and up and down sequence. And especially as we see IOA stuff roll out and the market changing, it becomes even more important to really know how to market your business effectively, not just run ads, but how to market your business effectively. And that's what Sarah and Sandra is so good at.

Salome Schillack (35:55):
If you have any thoughts, any comments, any questions, please send them to me, DM me on Instagram. Let me know what your favorite takeaway is from today's episode. And let me know how you are going to get back up in case you have had a little bit of the case of not so up and up. Hope you have a lovely week and I'll talk to you again next week. Bye.

Salome Schillack (36:25):
Thank you so much for listening. If you had fun, please come back next week and remember to hit that subscribe button, so you never miss a thing.