Salome Schillack:

Hello and welcome to episode number 82 of the Shine Show. Today we're going to talk about overcoming perfectionism to unlock online success, and I'm interviewing my student and my friend, Kimberly Samson. Kimberly is the founder of The Midlife Community, and host of the podcast, The Midlife where she discusses all things affecting women after 40. That's me. Kimberly's mission is to help women reimagine the potential of their midlife and design their next best chapter.

Salome Schillack:

And before we jump into the interview with Kimberly, I want to remind you that this episode is sponsored by A-Lister. It is my online course that teaches you the fastest way to build your engaged audience and make your first or next sale using Facebook and Instagram ads without wasting money, selling your soul on social media, or getting a tech degree, and you want to mark your calendar. The 13th of January is when A-Lister is available for you to enter my world and become part of the 1920s style party we have inside of A-Lister. If you are ready to stop feeling like you're selling your soul on social media. If you're finally ready to understand how Facebook ads can help you build a lucrative business selling your knowledge to other people and making an impact in their lives then go to shineandsucceed.com/waitlist, and make sure to get on there so that you won't miss a thing.

Salome Schillack:

Now, let's jump into the episode. Giving up your time and freedom to make money is so 2009. Hi, I'm your host Salome Schillack. And I help online course creators launch, grow, and scale their businesses with Facebook and Instagram ads so that they can make more money and have an even bigger impact in the world. If you're ready to be inspired to dream bigger, launch sooner, and grow your online business faster, then tune in because you are ready to shine, and this is the Shine Show. Kimberly, thank you so much for being here with me.

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, Salome, thank you so much for having me. This is quite an honor, honestly.

Salome Schillack:

Oh, thank you. I love having you in my community. I learned so much from you. I feel like we have a lot of things in common.

Kimberly Samson:

For sure.

Salome Schillack:

We definitely have similar struggles some days, and similar victories as well. So, I wanted you to come on today and share your story, your life story, but also what brought you to the point where you said, "I want to build an online business, and this is going to be the key to what for you." So, what brought this on?

Kimberly Samson:

Okay. Well, we can get to all that. But first, can I just stop and say that it's so refreshing to have a mentor like you. That is not controlling over the group like you have to be the only voice. And so, you're so welcoming to so many different people at so many different stages of their life and of their business. And I think you're really considerate of people's life experience, and that they all... everyone has something to offer everyone. And so, while you're very much in control of our journey because we need you, you're not controlling. And I really... It's turned into such a lovely group to be a part of, and it's really something I look forward to every week because even if I don't have something specific that I need your expertise in, I know just by listening and learning and filing things away, I get something out of the group. So, thank you so much. I love the way you run it.

Salome Schillack:

Thank you so much for saying that. I really deeply appreciate that because being controlling, I was told I'm dominating all my life.

Kimberly Samson:

You should say thank you. Me too.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. But it's been a journey for me because I pivoted completely to the other side where I would not even open my mouth because I'm too afraid someone's going to say I'm dominating them. And like what you just said, I feel like, "Wow, I have made progress. I found a middle ground."

Kimberly Samson:

Well, okay. So, yes, you found a generous spot. But please don't let go of your domination. That also makes you very spectacular. And hey, I mean, that's part of my mission, also. These stories that we get told and the way that you're supposed to behave and you're not a good girl if you're dominating. And that's not lady like, why would you be like that? All of these things figure into what I do for people and my own journey because I wanted to say, "Yes, that's good." And you're raising little girls, and it's important that they're empowered, and that they don't shy away from their strength and their power. It doesn't mean that you have to be a bitch. But also that word gets misused a lot too as just a label for strong women. So, I know we're diverting from the point, but I just want to say I love how you dominate what you do.

Salome Schillack:

Thank you. I will donate more. That's why I love talking to you because I feel like we learn from each other.

Kimberly Samson:

Yes.

Salome Schillack:

I really feel like we learn from each other. So tell me, how did you get to where you are now with doing what you're doing now because it didn't start out this way, did it?

Kimberly Samson:

It did not start out this way. And here's the fun part. I don't know if it's going to end up this way, which is something I like-

Salome Schillack:

And that's great too.

Kimberly Samson:

... to tell people too is be flexible in your life. But I also have been called domineering and much worse. And I've always been tremendously ambitious. And I lived my life as it came at me. I did not make decisions, which we could psychoanalyze a lot. And it's worked out great for me, which is nice. But I didn't take control and live my life until now. I'm going to... I'll be 49 next month. But so I did very well in school. And I went to great college, and I got great jobs out of school. And I had a big career, and my career defined me. I felt super important with my job. I was managing a lot of money for Merrill Lynch. And that was my identity, for sure.

Kimberly Samson:

Also, I think, because I did not have much else going on. I hadn't really developed as a human being in the same way that I hope my children will be developed as human beings when they're in their mid 20s. So, it really was all I had. But I also, so I had this big job and I was making lots of money and I felt super important. And I also had the good fortune of marrying the boy next door, although I didn't know the boy next door until after I had come back from college. And I did what I think I had the ambition inside, but I was also being told the fairy tale growing up. My responsibility in my life was to get married. And I will share with you quite frankly, that my grandmother actually spoke the words to me, "Honey, it's just as easy to love a rich one as it is a poor one."

Salome Schillack:

My mother had said the same thing to me.

Kimberly Samson:

So, you're getting those messages, and I checked the boxes. He was smart. He was handsome, came from a good family. He was graduating law school. We got married, and then life turns upside down because he got a job offer to move back to my college town, which is Austin, Texas. And surprisingly, I look back and I did not even think for a second I said, yes, that let's move. And I gave up my career, and I didn't think twice about it at the moment because I wanted to give my children a life I didn't have. I was a child of divorce and whatever that is, what it is. But so here I'm doing everything right. I'm following the rule book. This is the plan. I married the right boy, we are moving, and within three weeks of moving to a new town from Los Angeles I'm pregnant with our first child, and I'm going to stay home and everything's perfect. And cue the bluebirds and-

Salome Schillack:

I love the word perfect. Yes.

Kimberly Samson:

It's perfect.

Salome Schillack:

It's perfect. Of course, you're being perfect wife. You're going to be the perfect mother.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah, and I think that most women listening will snicker and go, "Yeah, everything that's "perfect" is not perfect."

Salome Schillack:

No, it's not. It's not.

Kimberly Samson:

You don't lose the ambition, and you don't lose the drive, and you reach... You refocus it for a while because my friends used to make fun of me because I would take my little tiny infant to playgroup, right? He was two, three months old. But I would change him into his pajamas before we left the house we were at because I didn't want him to be dirty when he would fall asleep in the car when I put them in the crib.

Salome Schillack:

Oh-

Kimberly Samson:

Okay, so-

Salome Schillack:

That's perfect. That's perfect mother.

Kimberly Samson:

I'm perfect. Because that's what I do everything perfect. Don't you do everything perfect?

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, yeah, often. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. So, I want to touch on something you said. I think there's a thing that you and I have in common and it's kind of a masculine energy. And that is the bit that makes people call us dominating. It is the bit that is ambitious. And it's also the bit that is driven by significance, and worthiness because that's been a big theme for me in my life is I need significance. I need to feel like I'm doing something important. And making money makes me feel way more important than making sandwiches or wiping snotty noses. So, your ambition and the big career, being successful, and defining yourself. How did that come into then? Being a mother and being happy to stay at home? Were you happy to stay at home and be a perfect mother?

Kimberly Samson:

I was.

Salome Schillack:

You were. [crosstalk 00:09:40].

Kimberly Samson:

I was, and I think because I am a rule follower also. As much as I'd have a tremendous rebellious streak. And that's just gotten wider and more fun the older I've gotten because I always did what I was told. Yeah. And so, I feel like I was just following the next rule book that I was given. But the problem is, is that we're very complicated as women. And I think that we're willing to play a role even though it feels authentic at the moment, but who you truly are and your essential self, she will come back at you kicking and screaming. Now, you're smart because you didn't let yours get too far buried. But I also was a little bit of a victim of where I was living in the south and my friends. I spent my 25th birthday party at a friend's wedding. Everybody got married very young. It was a different playbook. So, I was extremely happy to stay home because I was doing what I was supposed to, and I do what I'm supposed to until-

Salome Schillack:

Like a good girl from the south.

Kimberly Samson:

... I was pissed, yeah.

Salome Schillack:

Until you got pissed off.

Kimberly Samson:

Until I got pissed off, and I think-

Salome Schillack:

I love that. We should make a T-shirt. Until I got pissed off. Every woman should have a T-shirt that says, "Until I got pissed off."

Kimberly Samson:

Yes. And for me, the trigger of until I got pissed off was I worked myself out of a job. My eldest went to college and I was like, "Oh, wait a second. I don't keep getting promoted." And I don't keep... Even though I have two other children it occurred to me one day you're always a mother, of course, but not going to mothering day to day.

Salome Schillack:

I have never thought of it that way. The job goes away because the job goes to college.

Kimberly Samson:

The job goes away. And so, then I was totally... That's such an interesting question you asked. Was I okay with giving it all up? And I totally was to be honest. But then I realized, "Oh, wait, they're not going to need me all the time. If I've done a good job, they're going to go away." And then I started to look around. And I was like, I mean, yeah, I'm married to a great guy. And he's super fun to be with and everything, but my life is looking and feeling super basic, and I am not super basic.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. And here's another thing for any of your younger audience, if I had daughters, don't give up your career. Don't take your foot out. Don't get out of the game completely because there really is not... I always say I took the off ramp. There's no on ramp. You're just at a dead end. I started to look around and I was... And it's funny, you say, and I'm 100% on the same page with you. You crave significance. But I think if we're being honest, at least for me, if I'm being honest to myself, it's ego also. And I'm not going to say that shamefully because I do have an ego.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, it's ego for me, too. It is. It's ego. I need to be told I'm great all the time to feel-

Kimberly Samson:

Like a Labrador puppy.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

So, I couldn't really go back to work. I guess, I mean, I could. People do, but it wasn't... I still even though I've got a college aged child, I also have a grade school aged child. He's in third grade. I just wasn't... This is so spoiled and entitled, but I didn't want to be in somebody's office from 9:00 to 5:00, and I don't want to work for other people. I'm a boss. For me to be the boss, and don't want to be told what to do.

Kimberly Samson:

And so, I started trying to figure out what it was going to be. And that's how I ended up where I am today is what can I create and still be the perfect mom and be the perfect wife? And not renege, right? I can't change the rules on everybody just because I decided differently. I mean, people do, but I think that's a little irresponsible. So, what am I going to do? And so, then this world opened up to me that, "Oh, my God, I've got expertise, I've got talents. And the internet is the most wonderful thing to ever happen. It is a total game changer level the playing field.

Salome Schillack:

It is. You know what I love about this is, you say there's an off ramp, but there's no on ramp. When I became a mother, everything inside me rebelled against that, against-

Kimberly Samson:

Interesting.

Salome Schillack:

I hated that I only have door number one, which is work full-time or door number two, which is stay at home full-time, and that there was this contrast. And that the mums who work and the mums who stay home are two completely different beasts.

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, yeah.

Salome Schillack:

They just live on different planets. And I didn't feel like I fit in on either of those planets. And I felt like... Plus, I need the creativity. I need to be working. I need to be feeding my significance. To be honest, watching them jump on the trampoline gives me zero significance. Wiping their noses and feeding them for the umpteenth time and putting their shoes on gave me nothing.

Kimberly Samson:

I hear you.

Salome Schillack:

So, it's this door number one, door number two wicked thing catch 22, that unfortunately in 2020, 2021 we're moving into women still living. I feel like it is my personal mission to create more online entrepreneurs to help more women escape that catch 22. But also not just women, I see the mental health effect that having to be the main provider of our family has on my husband. And I know that if he can get more family work-life balance, if he can strike a better balance, he will be happier too. So, it's not just like that catch 22 is such a societal problem. That is my entire drive to [crosstalk 00:15:27]-

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, God, I can just... We should have drinks one day to talk about that because I have... I mean, so for all of my belief in women and our ability, I hate to tell you, it is evolutionary. And there is a reason. I mean, I think that you're home for your girls even though... You're working. You have this tremendous business, but you're there and I think that makes a difference.

Salome Schillack:

It does. It does make a difference.

Kimberly Samson:

I hate that. I hate to be that. And I know that's going to be super unpopular, and people don't want to talk about that, but if you're going to have the children [crosstalk 00:15:59]-

Salome Schillack:

But that's a balance.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah.

Salome Schillack:

And that's why we love the internet because I can drop them off at school, come home, do a day's work, and be at the school when the bell rings and pick them up. And yes, some afternoons I come back into my office. Other afternoons we go eat cake, or I cart them around for their activities.

Kimberly Samson:

And here's the great thing. Kids are dumb, and all they're going to remember even if you were in the next room working hard on your business for your clients, they're going to be like, "Oh, no, my mom was home." Because they don't care. They're doing their homework. They're watching TV. [crosstalk 00:16:31].

Salome Schillack:

I hope so. I hopes so,

Kimberly Samson:

No, I know so. I'm telling you, it's the best. You're there, and that's all they need. They just need to know that you're there because they can run in if there's a problem or a question or...

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, I touchwood. I do my best. So, okay, back to your story. So then you discovered the internet, and then what?

Kimberly Samson:

I discovered the internet and then... Okay, so it's been an evolution, and I love that. And because it's an evolution, and with a little bit of life perspective, I'm excited that what I'm doing now I know will even evolve from where it is. Nothing is ever stagnant, right?

Salome Schillack:

That's a great mindset to have.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah, because first how it started out is I have a very active internal dialogue. It's exhausting. And so, the first thing that happened for me is that I realized that I was writing in my head. But I wasn't writing anything down. I don't know why. But one day, I dropped everything in the middle of making dinner, clutch your pearls. I left the meal on the stove, and I wrote my first blog. And it was just to get stuff out of my head and entertain my friends. Everything I write on that blog is really like you have to know me, and it's just funny, and it's just sarcastic and my thoughts. But that was my first like, I have the internet. I have these things in my head. I have pretty forgiving friends. They find me entertaining. What the hell? I'm going to put it in into the interwebs. And I started a blog. That was my first-

Salome Schillack:

Great. What was that blog called?

Kimberly Samson:

You can look it up. It's my nickname. You should probably know this because we're buddies now, but my nickname is [KimB 00:18:11], and my second largest pet peeve in life is that people will shorten my name to Kim. They'll just assume if you're Kimberly you're Kim, and that is nails on a chalkboard to me. So, the name of my blog is KimB not Kim.

Salome Schillack:

I love it.

Kimberly Samson:

So, yeah, so that's my blog. And then, so then I started looking around. I'm like, "Oh, people make money blogging, right? And people sell stories to Scary Mommy or that kind of stuff. And that seemed like too much work. And also, it's so funny you say significant. I'm like, I mean, how famous can I get to do this? [crosstalk 00:18:52]. This seems so much of work, and I don't really write that regularly, only when something really gets stuck in my craw or mad about something or if something funny happens. So, I can't make... This isn't a career. So, then I'm going to confess to you what the second thing was. I have this friend, and she says everybody has a shitty first draft. Am I allowed to say that on your podcast?

Salome Schillack:

Yes.

Kimberly Samson:

So, my shitty first draft I started was targeted towards women in midlife. I'm not going to tell you what it was, but it was going to be kind of like Dear Abby for women in their life. Do you know Dear Abby?

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

Okay. But it was snarky, and while I'm very sarcastic it was inauthentic. I didn't want anyone to know it was me. And I'm like, "Well, I don't want anyone to know it's me then I'm not doing the right thing." Then one day, I just had this epiphany for The Midlife. And back to ego. I was like ego both in what I'm going to say is very egotistical, but also it was to check my ego and the egotistical part was, "Look, I'm really smart and I am really capable. And I have things to say. And I've always been in an advisory capacity and people usually are happier. I tell them what to do, and they're happier when they follow it." And then I realized, okay, well, if you're such a hot shot, and you had this total collapse, emotionally and existentially, then you're not the only one. And maybe it's my duty to share that, and to share the fact...

Kimberly Samson:

And also I looked around, I couldn't get out of it. I couldn't... I tried like going to therapy. And I tried reading every self-help book, and I could not get out of it. And I was like, "You know what, I got out of it. I need to be an example to other people. I can help people. I've got all of these tools that I created." So, this is it, the Midlife, and it just came to me.

Salome Schillack:

I love that.

Kimberly Samson:

And I just jumped in with two feet. I mean, I started a podcast, who the hell am I? I mean, I loaded three episodes, and they got approved by Apple Podcasts really quickly, and I was like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, now I have to do it weekly." And I've been doing it. I'm going to publish my 29th episode this week consistently.

Salome Schillack:

That's fantastic. Congratulations. That is awesome. I know what goes into creating a podcast every week so... That's fantastic. And I do want to say, I love that you say, I am smart. I know stuff. I am good at stuff. And this was a hard season for me, but I'm going to talk to other people about it because-

Kimberly Samson:

Which is very against hype, right? Because I'm like, I don't really crack ever or let anyone ever see the cracks. So that was a big growing thing for me too to be like, "Listen, I have to share this. And the thing is, I was right. Because it's funny, even close friends are like, say you're in my head. But we never talked about it before.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

And I get emails and DMs from people that this is a universal experience.

Salome Schillack:

Absolutely.

Kimberly Samson:

That I want to save women from.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, yeah. And there needs to be a safe space to be able to air all this stuff. Because we are so busy looking perfect on the outside-

Kimberly Samson:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Salome Schillack:

... but it's not perfect on the inside.

Kimberly Samson:

Mm-mm (negative).

Salome Schillack:

And it's not a perfect journey getting anywhere.

Kimberly Samson:

No.

Salome Schillack:

Nothing is linear. Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, my gosh, I say that all the time. [crosstalk] I say life, don't let... That's my biggest advice to my children because I lived a very linear life. These are the things you do. This is the plan. Do not live your life in a linear fashion. I love that.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, it doesn't work out. Just because life just doesn't happen that way.

Kimberly Samson:

It's not fun that way.

Salome Schillack:

So, you started the Midlife.

Kimberly Samson:

I started The Midlife.

Salome Schillack:

And so, tell me a little bit more about... So, it's a podcast now.

Kimberly Samson:

It's a podcast. It's a Facebook community. It's a course, and a coaching program to help women turn their midlife crisis into a midlife transformation because we are not done.

Salome Schillack:

No, we are just starting.

Kimberly Samson:

I am just getting started.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. We are just getting started.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. I really... I had this horrible really like epiphany that I was going to be 80 years old and look back on my life and filled with regret. And as far as I know, I only get one shot at this. And that was just not going to be okay because I needed like you said significance. I needed to leave my mark. I wanted to make money. So, that's what evolved.

Salome Schillack:

But what I love about what you're saying now is when you were young, and it was about finding the significance in your fancy job, where now, this might be true for you. It's definitely true for me. Now I find significance in relationships. I found significance in women like you, and being able to have conversations with you and with our group and with the students and being able to go, "There is so much significance in me sharing the mess, but also guiding the way."

Kimberly Samson:

Yes.

Salome Schillack:

Because we do both, we do both.

Kimberly Samson:

Yes. And the thing I love about you and our group also is that there's this weird... The internet is a wonderful, but bizarre place as well. I'm so sick of the lamenting. Like somebody told everybody that they had to show all of these weaknesses, or else they couldn't show people the transformation. It doesn't... It's so inauthentic in some ways. So I feel like you and I are very real about what's going well, what's not going well, what we're working on. But not in this annoying gross way. You know what I'm talking about?

Salome Schillack:

I do, yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

I know you know what I'm talking about.

Salome Schillack:

I do. Sometimes I think I overshare what's going... What's not working?

Kimberly Samson:

I think so. No, that's my point is that I don't think it's sappy and lame. [crosstalk 00:24:38].

Salome Schillack:

I mean, it is exhausting trying to portray a picture of non reality.

Kimberly Samson:

Right. But nobody is... That's not normal.

Salome Schillack:

No, it's not. No, it's not. And we're all just a few steps ahead of each other in different ways. As you've built The Midlife and your community in your coaching program, what's been a surprising challenge for you? Something you did not see coming.

Kimberly Samson:

Everything, a surprising challenge. Let's see. Okay, I think you'll love this because we are so similar in so many ways. How come more people aren't loving me and wanting to be in my group all the time? Are you kidding me? Why are you lining up and beating down the door? And why am I not making $10 million a year now because you all need me. I know you all need me. And so, what is your problem?

Salome Schillack:

Yes. And that's especially hard for people like us who walked into corporate jobs and didn't succeed straight away, right?

Kimberly Samson:

Right. Yeah.

Salome Schillack:

So the challenge is in figuring out how to attract the audience.

Kimberly Samson:

Yes. So back to how wonderful the internet is, and how wonderful you are. Because you helped me let people know I'm here. I mean, that's really what you do for people is that you're like the gatekeeper. So that's an interesting switch also because it's not just about presenting what you have to offer. Because I make decisions like that. I know what I want. I'll go find it, and I'll go by it. But truthfully, course creators, you can't just put it out there. You have to go inside the head of your buyer, of your person who needs you. They don't even know... Maybe that's the surprise. And that's somehow so much I've learned from you is I know that this person needs me I have to show them that they need me and that I know that they need me and that I know that I can show them that I can help them.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. And that's a journey.

Kimberly Samson:

It's very layered.

Salome Schillack:

It is. It is learning a language. It's really learning that language. And that's when I sometimes cringe a little bit when I tell people I do Facebook ads, I teach Facebook ads, because-

Kimberly Samson:

Because you don't. Can I just tell you, you don't.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, I don't.

Kimberly Samson:

You don't teach Facebook ads. You teach strategy, and you teach business philosophy. And you teach Facebook ads as a tool for people to grow their businesses. And believe me, I am a discerning consumer. I know what's out there, and what you do... You're in a very crowded marketplace. But you're different. You're a different store. You're like, you're at the mall, but you're like when Neiman Marcus went into my mall I was like, "That's weird. Why is Neiman Marcus in my mall?" Do you even know Neiman Marcus?

Salome Schillack:

I have no idea what you just said.

Kimberly Samson:

Okay. You're like a Rodeo Drive store in a mall, right? The mall is everybody selling Facebook ads. And that's the other thing drives me crazy is all these people teaching people how to build businesses, but they've never built a business. And I feel like you've built a business and your business is like very layered, and you have a lot of offerings. You always say, "I don't teach people how to pull levers." Right. Because that I could read in a PDF.

Salome Schillack:

Correct. That you can Google on how to pull levers inside the Facebook Ads Manager is all over YouTube. Thank you for saying that. That's very kind.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. And if it was that easy, then we would all just be a storefront, right?

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

And that's not how it is.

Salome Schillack:

This has been, what you just shared, that has been a surprising delight for me discovering that I do that for people because I didn't know I do that for people until COVID hit. And I launched A-Lister, and then the Launch Lounge and started interacting with students in that way and got that feedback from you and the other students and was like, "Oh, okay. Hang on. Here's the thing that I do. This is what I do."

Kimberly Samson:

I wonder, do you think that was a function of you had been running this agency where people have these tremendous budgets, and maybe to a certain extent that is more... They've already got all of their copy team, and they've got all of their strategy. And so, they really did need you as a tactical person to a certain extent?

Salome Schillack:

I think that helped for sure. I feel like I have been watching people very closely who have built successful online businesses from the sideline for a very long time. For five years, I was sitting on the sideline watching them. Paying really close attention to what they're doing. And when I started the agency, I went into it with this expectation that people who make $2 million a year have got it all figured out. When I got inside their businesses, and I'm running the ads, it was a delight for me to learn. Oh, there are things that I know that you don't know, that I can teach you, and when you apply it, it makes an impact in your already, your $2 million business. And I think slowly over time that gave me confidence. But it also taught me...

Salome Schillack:

It taught me a very important thing. And this is a Facebook ads thing that's my pet peeve that I feel like I need to shout this from the rooftops. Facebook ads and marketing is a marriage. And so many people just want to hire Facebook ads managers to pull levers for them or I have a rule if someone applies to work with us, and they tell me they want me to make them money, we're done. We are done because it is not the job of the Facebook ads manager to make you money. It is your marketing job to make you money. So there's this marriage between marketing and Facebook ads. And I think that's what you summarize so well. That's what I teach.

Kimberly Samson:

That's what it is.

Salome Schillack:

That's what I try to teach our students is that it's not just about setting up the right campaign. It's not just about how big your audience should be. It's not just about pulling the levers. It's not just about running the lead magnet. You have to understand this marriage and this language and how it all fits together, and the nuances and the colors. And then-

Kimberly Samson:

I'd love to see the statistic on... So, we post a question for the weekly calls. And then we start by you answering that question. And then by the end, I am doing something completely different that's a way better idea or taking a step back because it's the right thing to do, and rethinking my strategy. Whereas, you could have very satisfied customers just asking our questions, but you don't let us stop at the question. It's like you really poke and prod and make it better.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, it really is because I have seen that a Facebook ads problem is never a Facebook ads problem.

Kimberly Samson:

Mm-mm (negative).

Salome Schillack:

I did coach training way back when I started my business, and I thought I wanted to be a coach.

Kimberly Samson:

By the way you are a coach [crosstalk 00:31:50]-

Salome Schillack:

I have turned... I have. Yeah, I have come full circle back to that. Yeah. Isn't it fun? That's that's flexibility, right? And I remember one of the things I learned in coaching school was the problem shows up... The problem occurs two steps back from where it shows up. So, any Facebook ads question, it took me a while to really catch on to it. But I was like, yeah, that's why you can't answer Facebook ads questions in a Facebook group. That is why I want to stick a fork in my eye when I have to answer people's Facebook ads questions without being able to speak to them because it requires the back and forth and it requires uncovering what happened two steps before.

Kimberly Samson:

What's so funny that you say you won't take on clients that want you to make them money because I feel like in a Facebook group, somebody's just asking you for the answers of how to make them money, and it's never going to work.

Salome Schillack:

And how do you answer that in a Facebook post?

Kimberly Samson:

You don't people need to be in your group and take advantage of your expertise and learn. It's hard. It's hard work. And you have to learn all of the ins and outs and all of the details.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. So you've shared a little bit of what's been the surprising challenge. Tell me what has delighted you.

Kimberly Samson:

Laughing so hard about significance, right?

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

That's what has delighted me is that I do get the scratch behind the ear all the time that I'm doing the right thing. So, the emails I get out of the blue from people telling me how a podcast affected them or that they've been thinking the same thing. That's amazing to me because I talk a big game, but then you're like, "Oh, wait, actually, I am good at this. And people are responding to this. And people do need this." And so, that's incredible to have had an instinct that there was a space in the marketplace for me and what I have to offer people and then for people to be able to come back to me and say, "You're really helping me."

Kimberly Samson:

And then it goes back to, yes, you and I will acknowledge that the money feels very good. But truly what feels really good like you said, it's the relationships, it's people. That is the validation. I mean, you can be continents away, and have support and love and friends and people that are looking out for you. And that is really the magic of the internet too.

Salome Schillack:

It is. Yeah, it is.

Kimberly Samson:

So, that's really special. That's super incredible.

Salome Schillack:

Did you grow up with a belief in your heart that you were made for greatness, you were made for more?

Kimberly Samson:

Totally. In fact, my husband and I have had very few fights in our marriage not because I'm good, because he's amazing.

Salome Schillack:

I have the same husband.

Kimberly Samson:

He said to me once, and he meant it as a dig that I suffer from KimB exceptionalism. And I was like, yeah, aha. It's true. But life has confirmed that for me too.

Salome Schillack:

Yes. Yeah. I have the same thing. When I as a child, I felt a calling. I felt a greater purpose. And yes, my ego likes to say, "Yeah. I'm going to lead the way."

Kimberly Samson:

Of course. Right.

Salome Schillack:

And I feel like you need that.

Kimberly Samson:

You need that. And also, I think, though what's important is that self awareness, which I think is something that you possess, and I know I possess because I'm constantly reassessing myself and analyzing and am I doing the best for people? And it's like you have to... If you only have the one side then you're a narcissist and a crazy person. And so, unless you are grounded by your people, in your family, your friends, and your purpose, to me that's going to be, that's the true greatness is that you can be there and you can be the energy and you can be the leader. But you're compassionate, and you're empathetic. And you care about what you're doing and who you're doing it for and to truly see results and know that you've been a part of other people's greatness, too.

Kimberly Samson:

That also, that's something that I love is that I am so excited when I help somebody else step into their greatness. That doesn't detract anything from me. That is just like, that is pure love and amazing. I love helping people. I love seeing them successful. Also, because they turn around and tell me that I helped.

Salome Schillack:

And that's the other side of that coin. And that's the other side of that coin. And aren't we lucky that we get to make that impact in other people's lives? And aren't we lucky that we get to hear it so regularly?

Kimberly Samson:

Yes, yes. And also-

Salome Schillack:

I don't think there's a job where you get to hear, "Wow, you really made a difference to me today," on a regular basis. Like when you teach people your skills, or when you're creating courses or coaching programs that helps people.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah, and that's so weird about that I took so much value out of the corporate world, which maybe you'll agree with this, too. It's like, who cares how well somebody's portfolio did or didn't do, which all of that really was out of my control?

Salome Schillack:

Well, I think that was just the seed of this. It's just the immature version of the same thing. You wouldn't be driven now to make the impact that you're making in so many people's lives if you didn't have that drive. And if you didn't have the need to feel the significance. And when you're 20, it shows up in how much money can I make? Or how can I please my boss? When you're coming up to 50 then you're like [crosstalk 00:37:22]-

Kimberly Samson:

Listen, don't rush me. I have a year and 40 days or something.

Salome Schillack:

When you're in your 40s. I should that. Now that I'm in my 40s as well. Luckily, we grow up and we mature.

Kimberly Samson:

Don't you... Isn't there a part of you... Aren't you so glad you're 40?

Salome Schillack:

Yes.

Kimberly Samson:

I like turning 40. You kind of feel like you're finally a little bit of a grown up.

Salome Schillack:

I do. I feel like-

Kimberly Samson:

Right?

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, I have a few things figured out now. And I have let go of a few things that held a death grip on me. I give a few less fucks.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. And that's also I feel like women are so obsessed and disappointed in aging.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. I know.

Kimberly Samson:

And I think that's part of my mission, too, is like, "Oh, no, it just gets better and better and better." It's like your kids growing older every... I was never one to be like, "Oh, I miss when they were babies." I'm like, "No, they were fabulous when they were babies. But they're so much more fabulous now." It just gets better. Life can get better. [crosstalk 00:38:23]. Your life experience. But your life experience, you continue to learn and grow. And it just gets better and better and better.

Salome Schillack:

What's your best piece of advice for a woman in her midlife struggling?

Kimberly Samson:

I have a little bit of a tough love approach. And the first thing that I say to people is, you are where you are by your own hand. And that's a good thing, and a bad thing. I know that feels terrible right now, but you got yourself there and you can get yourself out. I think that a big mistake that women in midlife just naturally as human beings, we look to blame our situation, or our spouse, or our parents, or children, or whatever. And I think if you put on your big girl panties, and realize that you have all of the power to change all of it and how you approach all of it. You can. You can take control of your situation. You can create a completely different life for yourself within the confines of your... You don't have to go light a match and burn the house down and ruin people's lives.

Kimberly Samson:

I have a love-hate relationship with the word selfish. I do think we should be selfish, but it doesn't have to be at other people's expense. But this is your life. You are in control of what happens and you should take pleasure and power out of that. You can make it incredible. Everyone can.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. I love that. I love that, and I agree with you. It may be sounds harsh when you hear it the first time. But when it really sinks in that you are responsible for how you got here, and you are responsible for how you get out of here or how you get to where you want to be.

Kimberly Samson:

Yes. And then you get to get... And then you get to take all the glory of that also.

Salome Schillack:

Correct. Yeah. And then you get to choose how you want it to be and how you want to create it.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. And I think a big thing for women also, they're like, "Well, I don't know what I want to do. I don't know what my purpose is." I tell people, just take a step forward. [crosstalk 00:40:33]. You get to change your mind.

Salome Schillack:

Yes. Because look at you and me. I mean, how many times have we... We've evolved and changed it and reiterated it, and it's constantly evolving.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah, just keep moving forward. And then take the detours. Don't be linear, right?

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

We're going to have a whole line of T-shirts.

Salome Schillack:

Yes, we are. Yes, I'm going to have lots of social media posts come out of this. What is your best advice to somebody who is listening who wants to start sharing their message online, either blogging, or podcasting? Or is struggling to build that audience? Or is trying to figure out what it is that they're selling online? Or how they're reaching people? What would you say to that person?

Kimberly Samson:

I would say, number one, don't put the cart before the horse. Don't decide I'm going to be an online entrepreneur, and then go try to back into it. Be authentic people. Really give some thought to who you are, what you're good at, what you have to offer people, and then perhaps this avenue is the right place for you to go. I think that people, there is so much potential, so much profit potential. And there's a lot of dollars to be spent and a lot of dollars to be earned. But if people go into it just thinking, I'm doing this for the money, you're never going to be successful.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah.

Kimberly Samson:

It's not going to be authentic. So, I mean, go into a business because you have something to offer.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah. What would you say to someone who says, "Well, I just don't know what I'm offering. I just what I have to offer."

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, my God. This is my tough side coming out. I'd say, "Well, what are you doing? Why are you an entrepreneur?" Just because you want to make a lot of money is not a good enough reason to be an entrepreneur. I think you have to have an idea, or you have to have somebody you want to serve, or you have to have... I think it has to come from somewhere more altruistic.

Salome Schillack:

I agree. Yeah, I agree.

Kimberly Samson:

And the rest of the good stuff comes later.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, we too often look at, well, what's someone else selling that I can sell too? Instead, it's like, what is in my heart? Open up and attract people that way.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. Well, I think that's somehow I get very frustrated because I get marketed too as a provider of something by all the people that who want to tell me how to do it because they're all just selling the same thing. Who can have the prettier pictures? And who can tell, like I said before, the sobier story. And that's why you're so amazing, and so authentic in what you're doing because you have that tactical expertise, that's just out there, the pull the levers, that is out there, But what else that you deliver, that's the authenticity. And that's the true value. And that's the counsel, and advice, and strategy. So, you're like the model. If you're going to go into something crowded, you didn't do it because you could learn it. You did it because you had a passion for it, and you were good at it. And you knew you had more to offer.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, that is wonderful. That's just wonderful. And so, here we are, where can people go if they want to learn more about The Midlife or about KimB not Kim.

Kimberly Samson:

No, don't go to my... As I read it, I realize that was never anything really... I mean, you can go read it and be [crosstalk 00:43:59]-

Salome Schillack:

Do you know what's funny about that is another thing you and I have in common. When I gave up my sales coaching business, I started a video blog called Shine and Succeed. My business to this day is called Shine and Succeed, mainly because it's easier to spell them Salome Schillack. It's way easier to tell people, "Go to Shine and Succeed." And I started it kind of as a life coach vlogging. I just hit record on the camera and started talking. And that went down a rabbit hole that ended up with Facebook ads.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. Well, this definitely seats you more. That is so funny because I do think you are a coach in some ways. I just can't imagine you... And it's funny because I'm not super accessible that way either. I'm kind of a private person, which is weird that I'm doing this. But yeah, so my blog is just there because for entertainment, but the way that you find me is themidlife.co, and you can listen to The Midlife Podcast on anywhere that you enjoy podcasts. And you can sign up for my waitlist because I will be relaunching Midlife Reimagined: Design Your Next Best Chapter after the first of the year. So it'll be my second time bringing that course to the masses. And if you're not on my waitlist, you'll probably see my ads that Salome helps me write and get in front of you to let that I know you need me.

Salome Schillack:

And you will see them because Kimberly knows how to build audiences.

Kimberly Samson:

Well, I didn't know how to build an audience. I knew my audience was there, but you helped me find my audience and bring them to me. I have some of those. I should do screenshot them. Like 150 shares and 400 likes.

Salome Schillack:

Yeah, you should screenshot them for me so I can use [crosstalk 00:45:52]-

Kimberly Samson:

As I'm saying, I should because I did a $5... Listen, a $5 engagement ad, there's the tactical. Do $5 a day on an engagement ad and set your audience blah, blah, blah. But you also looked at my copy, and you told me how to change it, and you taught me how to write it. And so, it's out there and it's building an audience. And now I understand how sneaky the internet is and how now that somebody who just takes a longer peek or likes it or shares it is now in my grasp, and I will get-

Salome Schillack:

Yes, in your grasp. I love it.

Kimberly Samson:

Now you will know me.

Salome Schillack:

Yes. Well, that's fabulous. I hope everyone can go and get in your grasp.

Kimberly Samson:

And I would just tell you, if you are offended by swearing, if you're offended by tough love. If you don't want somebody to tell you how it really is do not go listen to my podcast. But if you are tired of platitudes, and all the bullshit that is out there, and all the woo-woo. I mean, I believe in the woo. But let's get real also, then I'm your girl, if that kind of stuff appeals to you.

Salome Schillack:

There you go.

Kimberly Samson:

If you want to get down to business and feel better, I'm your girl.

Salome Schillack:

Get down to business and feel better. I love that. We all love that. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, Salome, thanks so much.

Salome Schillack:

And thank you for being such a joyful member of my community. I love having you in my [crosstalk 00:47:20]-

Kimberly Samson:

Well, that's such an interesting thing too. You attracted those people. We are all so different. But you were the lightning rod for all these fantastic people. And if anyone's even... I mean, if you're just listening on the sidelines to what Salome is telling you, you are missing out. Jump in when she opens up A-Listers after the first of the year. It shouldn't even be a decision. It will be the best thing that you ever did for yourself and your business.

Salome Schillack:

That is so kind. I was telling my team the other day, I said to them, "There's a three month mark, where those that do not jive with what I do. They start falling out a little bit perfect."

Kimberly Samson:

Perfect.

Salome Schillack:

But when we hit that three month mark. When someone's in my community for three months we're a family. We're a family, and you feel it, and I feel it, and we know it, and I know at that point, it's kind of like the purge point. I go, [crosstalk 00:48:15]. After this point, this is my peeps.

Kimberly Samson:

Yeah. And your people are each other's peeps. We all have each other's back and the celebration. There's no backstabbing, cattiness, there's no snickering. I mean, I feel like I can be totally open about this totally blew up on me, and there's love and support and encouragement. And that's because that's what you attract.

Salome Schillack:

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you. I appreciate you coming on. And I know that there's a lot of women who are going to listen to this and to be like, "Yes. The Midlife is my time to [crosstalk 00:48:52]."

Kimberly Samson:

Midlife crisis is real. It's real, and it's also...It's your second adolescence, and it can get really fun and really exciting.

Salome Schillack:

Oh, I love that. Yes, it is your second adolescence. And this time you get to do it without the mistakes. [crosstalk 00:49:08].

Kimberly Samson:

Oh, I never said that.

Salome Schillack:

Maybe without the stupid mistakes. Maybe there will be some stupid mistakes, too.

Kimberly Samson:

That's so funny because next week my podcast is actually the gift of mistakes.

Salome Schillack:

That's great. Yes. All right. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate [crosstalk 00:49:26]-

Kimberly Samson:

Thank you, Salome.

Salome Schillack:

I appreciate you being here.

Kimberly Samson:

I appreciate you. Talk to you soon. Bye.

Salome Schillack:

Thank you.

Kimberly Samson:

Thank you.

Salome Schillack:

Thank you so much. Bye. How amazing is Kimberly. You know what surprised me the most about getting to work with students in 2020, and getting to see the transformations that they created is that when I set out to teach people Facebook and Instagram ads, I had no idea about the mindset shifts that we were all going to experience together. Just like Kimberly was saying how she discovered that so much of the success with Facebook and Instagram ads is about your mindset, and that it is not at all a linear process. So, you can get on the waitlist to join A-Lister. We are opening for enrollment on the 13th of January. And you can do that by going to www.shineandsucceed.com/waitlist. I will see you again next week. Have a great week, everyone. Bye.

Salome Schillack:

Thank you so much for listening. If you had fun, please come back next week, and remember to hit that subscribe button, so you never miss a thing.