Salome Schillack (00:00):

You're listening to episode number 104 of The Shine Show. Today we're talking about turning failure into success with Claire Yee.

Giving up your time and freedom to make money is so 2009. Hi, I'm your host Salome Schillack and I help online course creators launch, grow, and scale their businesses with Facebook and Instagram ads so that they can make more money and have an even bigger impact in the world. If you're ready to be inspired to dream bigger, launch sooner, and grow your online business faster, then tune in because you are ready to shine. And this is The Shine Show.

Claire, thank you so much for joining us here on The Shine Show today.

Claire Yee (00:52):

My pleasure. So lovely to be here, thank you.

Salome Schillack (00:55):

It's always nice to hang out with my Kiwi friends in New Zealand.

Claire Yee (01:00):

Just across the ditch.

Salome Schillack (01:02):

Just across the ditch, yes. And at this stage, you're the only New Zealander in the Launch Lounge or in ending A-Lister. Hopefully soon we'll have some more Kiwis join us.

Claire Yee (01:13):

I'm sure.

Salome Schillack (01:14):

Yes because we love you guys. Claire, tell us a little bit about your story, and where did your idea for your online business start and how have you built it to where it is today?

Claire Yee (01:26):

So the online course came after really years of ... So 10 years ago, I started teaching hypnobirthing classes in-person and I've been doing that consistently for many Saturdays for the past 10 years. And that business has just sort of ticked along and been just really amazing growing through word of mouth and parents sharing their amazing birth stories with other parents that they know that are pregnant. And that has just really built and grown really beautifully and organically. And when my kids were little, that was great because I was able to be home with them during the week. And then my husband would have them on Saturdays and I'd go and get paid to sit down and talk to adults, which was just so [crosstalk 00:02:12].

Salome Schillack (02:15):

Every mother's dream.

Claire Yee (02:16):

Exactly. But I also loved the idea of the scalability of online. And so like I'm a trained life coach and I do Reiki and EFT and so many healing modalities that I've trained on over the years. And so at the same time, while I was running the hypnobirthing courses, I was also wanting to do more life coaching online. And so really for years, I've been on the path of really sort of building an online business and an online presence, but I've been niche hopping for years as well and I was thinking I'll help people with weight loss or I'll help people with this and that. And it's been while I've come full circle back to, "Oh, why don't I do it online hypnobirthing course?"

Salome Schillack (03:07):

I didn't realize. So while you've had the physical local business for hypnobirthing, you did different online businesses, you tried different things?

Claire Yee (03:17):

Yes.

Salome Schillack (03:17):

I didn't know that. So how did you come back to, "Well, why don't I just do hypnobirthing?" Why didn't you start with hypnobirthing online?

Claire Yee (03:25):

Well, at the time I was teaching a session methodology, of hypnobirthing that I wasn't able to take online, but then a couple of years ago I realized the content that I'm teaching has actually morphed and changed over the years of teaching it to Kiwi New Zealand parents. I had changed it in such a way that it was almost so different from the original course that I trained in and the way in which I was sharing it to make it make sense. And just through that experience of how I was sharing it, and also bringing in my own experience with coaching and personal development and all these other things that I was bringing into it. And I realized one day, I'm actually not teaching this other methodology. Now this course has actually really become my own. So I restructured it.

I took it from a course that was run over several weeks to just a one day course, which I found ended up stitching parents better because both of them could just commit to the one day and done. And that's when I had the freedom to then create it as an online course because the content was mine.

Salome Schillack (04:34):

Oh, I see. Okay. And so at that point you'd already developed some online marketing skills in all your other niche hopping experiences?

Claire Yee (04:40):

Exactly. Yeah. So while I never sort of had massive success in those other niches, it was amazing experience in what works online and building my confidence with regards to building websites and communicating. And I've done so many courses over the years to learn internet marketing that it's been a really great self-development and an education and to how to do it.

Salome Schillack (05:09):

Oh, it is that, isn't it? So for personal development that's what I'm I going up for?

Claire Yee (05:14):

Yeah. It's the biggest personal development you can possibly take yourself on as to own your own business.

Salome Schillack (05:24):

That is true. That is true. So what have been the biggest things that you've learned in learning to create and sell your hypnobirthing course online?

Claire Yee (05:32):

I think naturally I'm a teacher and this has been somewhat you've really helped me to see is that ... Because I just go straight away. If I'm communicating online, I go straight into teacher mode, but that's actually not necessarily where people are at or what they need at the time. And what really connects with people and allows them that kind of transformation to begin with as in getting the hidden to the space where they're actually ready to take it further as sharing stories and experiences and really building those relationships in that way. And it's all an experiment. It's easy I think, to go out and just create a lead magnet, set yourself on a there's goals and think, "Okay, this is it, I'll follow it, all of the steps and this is going to work." But more often than not, it doesn't, or it might, but there's always tweaks and things that you can make even if it's doing well.

And I think always listening to that feedback of what's working and what's not, and making changes and taking that expectation out of it having to be perfect.

Salome Schillack (06:46):

I love that you make a really good point when you say more often than not it doesn't work. That is the truth. You fail more than you succeed, but it's in the failing that you learn what you need to know to get to this success. Right?

Claire Yee (07:04):

Yeah. And I think it's so important to disconnect from that judgment of a failure. Okay so what you've done, it hasn't worked, but you're not a failure. Don't take it personally. That's [crosstalk 00:07:17] learning for me.

Salome Schillack (07:19):

That was really, really hard for me because I didn't grow up in an environment where failing was encouraged. I grew up in an environment where competitiveness and black and whiteness and right or wrong and good and bad it was very dichotomous, almost environment and I'm very competitive. And in most things in my life I would say I was taught that if I'm not the best at it, I shouldn't even try it, which is the anti entrepreneur mindset, right?

Claire Yee (07:49):

Yeah. It's a straight road to quitting, isn't it?

Salome Schillack (07:52):

Yes, straight road to quitting. It's a straight road to quitting, exactly. And it's not how we are traditionally raised as children in the school system and I was raised or what I internalized. And you have such a beautiful mindset about the playfulness and the trying things and the trying things and learning from it. So tell us a little bit about what things have you tried that you have failed at?

Claire Yee (08:19):

Oh, where do I start?

Salome Schillack (08:24):

Maybe I should phrase it better. What things have you tried that you have learned from?

Claire Yee (08:30):

Oh my gosh, everything. I'm finding it really hard to ... I guess it's so hard to kind of narrow that down to specific examples. But I think those kind of stepping stones of apparent failures have been all of the different niches that I've tried and the different ways of sharing that with audiences. They've been experiences and if we enter to them with an expectation of reaching six figures or more within a year or anything like that, it would have been so caged and service structured, but I don't know.

Yeah. I was just kind of, let's try this, let's try that. But I could have easily looked at it as a failure every time. And I mean, I've definitely gone through times of going, "Oh, well, this isn't working," and I'll try something else. And I possibly with a lot of adjusted and stuck with it for long enough for it to be a success. But then also my interest in it kind of got lost and it's really hard to keep pushing it forward when it's just not flowing. I really believe that it's you've got to be able to kind of bring that passion to it and passion comes and goes, yeah. I've had so many failures, if that makes sense. If you kind of look at what works and what didn't, most of it didn't.

Salome Schillack (09:58):

Yeah. And that's normal and that is normal. And I really want anyone who is listening, who is feeling at this stage well they've tried so many things and it didn't work to hear this because this exact thing is what made me give up and go back to my job. And I spent a year back in my day job before I was like, "No, I am definitely not made for working for someone else."

Claire Yee (10:21):

And I think when you ... I've done so many courses on online marketing and things, and when you sign up for the course, you get all excited. It's like signing up for a gym membership, but they don't tell you, you're going to fail so many times. They of course in the marketing of the courses, it's all about all these success stories and I think it really, for me built me up every time I pressed buy now, I was like "Right, this is the key to success and this is going to be my path and this is going to work." But then I'd try it And there was so much of it that didn't work, but it's almost like the marketing needs to be, but then probably nobody would buy it.

It was almost like you're going to fail a 100 times and then maybe you'll make it, because that's the truth. But with that mindset I think you're more prepared to go, "Okay, well that didn't work. What next, rather than like I'm quitting."

Salome Schillack (11:19):

Yes, exactly. And I feel like that puts you in a place where you can be more playful about it and you can be more adventurous about it. And you can be more curious about it. What I have learned is it's when I'm in this adventurous playfulness curious mode, that I actually learn the lessons I need to learn. Because if I'm not there, I'm not searching for those. I'm not searching to see what I'm meant to see.

And I always think like the way that the school system works is when we write a test and you fail the test, you get the test back and you can see which questions you missed. But business doesn't work that way and life doesn't work that way. Nobody shows you, "Oh, this is the thing that you're missing." You have to get curious. You have to get playful. You have to get really try to have fun to really see what the thing is that you missed, because it might not be in front of your face. Nobody's pointing it out to you.

Claire Yee (12:20):

Yeah, that's right. I heard a great joke once that said that I think my teacher has a crush on me or something. She keeps putting kisses on all my words. [crosstalk 00:12:31].

Salome Schillack (12:34):

Yeah. That's funny.

Claire Yee (12:35):

A nice way to look it up.

Salome Schillack (12:36):

Yeah. If life can just show us the crosses so that we can know where we're failing rather than trying to explore this, but it is fun. It's fun.

Claire Yee (12:46):

And that's been something so beautiful that's come out of being a part of your membership is that when I've been exploring all these different ways of marketing and it hasn't worked and I've come to you and I'm like in that yet another failure kind of it's been so beautiful to have that support. I think that's such an important thing isn't it? Not trying to build your business by yourself, even though it's your own business, but to have that support and that system and to talk with people that are disconnected from the emotional aspect of it and just go, "Okay. It's all right."

Salome Schillack (13:25):

Yeah. I have to say that's one thing that I really love and value about the community that we've created inside the Launch Lounge. And that's in A lister as well is I encourage people to file. We tell the stories of the good, the bad and the ugly, not just the great, because I do feel like we need to normalize this a lot more. So speaking of that, tell us a little bit about when you joined, when you originally became one of my students, you were launching with a webinar. Now, you're not doing that anymore. So tell us a little bit about that journey.

Claire Yee (14:05):

So yeah, I was thinking, "Okay," and this was just right before, six months or so before I found you and decided to work with you then, and I'd created my online offering and I was like, "Right, I'm going to market this with webinars. There's lots of success with webinars." And I followed a very simple outline of creating Facebook ads for commercials and to get people into my webinars. And I had some success with it, but in the end, because my course isn't a high ticket offering, I think as well, it possibly made a difference, but I ended up spending just as much as I was making.

And after I'd done it a few times, I was like "This isn't a business. This is just a stressful experience."

Salome Schillack (14:52):

It's just a to do list.

Claire Yee (14:57):

Exactly. You're going to make money at the end of the day, as much as you might love it. And so that's when I really realized the missing piece for me was learning how to do Facebook ads and then through following all of your amazing teachings I was able to then experience some more success with webinars. But again, it wasn't, and this has come through talking with you about it, which is the beauty of having this someone to reflect it.

And we kind of came to that realization that doing a webinar for my particular product was just like this overload, this avalanche of information where really, they sort of just need to have the waves of information. So now what my new experiment it's going pretty well so fat. Really building that relationship through email marketing. And so that's my new learning. And I'm learning a lot about how to communicate through email marketing without being in that teacher mode. Whether am I teaching everything that's in my course through the emails, it's like, how do I open up the conversation and share the transformation in a way that it's going to connect with the reader at the end.

Salome Schillack (16:17):

There's a few things that I want to touch on here. The first one is this sort of moving from a webinar to an email sequence and moving away from selling with a webinar, you said it's like an avalanche of information versus these kind of waves. And I want to just point out here, your course is what $240 is it?

Claire Yee (16:35):

297.

Salome Schillack (16:36):

297. Okay. 297. So generally what I have seen is webinars are overkill for anything under $500, or even if it's, I tend to recommend to just push it up to a $1,000 if you're going to use a webinar because webinar ads are expensive. So I really like that you're selling it with email. And I like what you're saying that there's kind of these pulses in these emails because our audiences as well one of the other things that we've spoken about with your audience is the segmenting of your audience because your audience or expected mothers, right?

Claire Yee (17:10):

Yeah. And they're all coming into my world at different stages of their pregnancy too. So they're in very kind of different mindsets. The early first trimester mindset of "It's all going to be amazing." And then that third trimester mindset of "Crap."

Salome Schillack (17:31):

This was a good idea before the things grew the size of a watermelon.

Claire Yee (17:36):

Now what do I do?

Salome Schillack (17:38):

Yeah. How do we get this thing out of me? Yep. Yeah. You can hear I've been there. Yeah. So the segmenting of that and doing it in an email list really gives you more power in order to get the exact right message in front of someone at the exact right time. And I will say, as the Facebook ads person, you will save a ton of money. You can spend far less if you sell on an email sequence using an email sequence, than when you sell with a webinars. So that's been a really good thing that I've witnessed happening for you.

Claire Yee (18:12):

Yeah. It really has. And it's early days as well. It's still unfolding because obviously the also stopped doing that. The kind of window of, it's available and the course is available and then it's closed the doors. And building it up as an evergreen offering because different people are ready at such different times. Some parents, some women know in the first trimester that they need this now and they use it earlier on and others don't come to that realization until like 38 weeks in their pregnancy and they're like "Okay, I need it this instant." I think, yeah bringing people in with that really low cost lead magnet through the ads and then just staying in communication with them and being here when they're ready is yeah.

Salome Schillack (19:05):

And that's working, it's all working now. You're making money?

Claire Yee (19:08):

Certainly. Yes. Yes.

Salome Schillack (19:08):

Okay, good.

Claire Yee (19:15):

It's already, even though a lot of people that are already in my email sequence may buy down the track before they have their babies already it's working, the steps are better than what they were with the webinars.

Salome Schillack (19:28):

That's awesome. And one of the things that I've loved watching you learn is how to track your stats and how to understand your stats so that you can make informed decisions.

Claire Yee (19:39):

Yes, so I wasn't a spreadsheet person before I met you and now I'm actually loving them.

Salome Schillack (19:47):

Yes. I will say Hannah on my team creates a mean spreadsheet. She makes a spreadsheet look welcome and inviting to anyone with spreadsheet fear.

Claire Yee (19:56):

Yeah, she totally does. I still can't create them, but I can put the numbers in.

Salome Schillack (20:02):

Neither can I. sometimes I create them because I'm like, "Okay, this is what I want to achieve." And then I still seen them turn on and I'm like, "Hannah, just format for me so that I want to look at it."

Claire Yee (20:16):

Make it pretty.

Salome Schillack (20:17):

What's been surprisingly hard for you about building an online business?

Claire Yee (20:22):

Surprisingly hard I think is my ability to stick with it and not go after the next shiny new object.

Salome Schillack (20:34):

What's your achilles healing in terms of shiny objects? For some people, it's the bright new shiny social media channel. That's not my problem. For me it's the bright, new, shiny online course I can go and buy.

Claire Yee (20:47):

I think for me it's been the courses. Try this course, try this course, this because you read the success stories of these different ways of doing things. And you're like, "Right. That must work for me. Let me try it." And it doesn't. And another new shiny object comes along and it's a different path and a different way of doing things. And you try that and that doesn't work. And so it's been kind of sticking through it and there's been something like just always calling me forward that's made me stick with it somehow. I'm not quite sure what it is, but just fail and get up and try again.

Salome Schillack (21:25):

Well, I think that's the beauty of being an entrepreneur is I think we have a little bit of obsessive personalities. And once something has bitten you to the point where you just can't leave it alone, it becomes a calling. It becomes a mission and it becomes something that drives us. So, that's really cool.

Claire Yee (21:43):

When you can feel that potential I think it's like the potential of the change that you can make in people's lives through your offering and the change that it makes in your own life for you and your family. It's so beautiful. And it's worth all of the stepping stones and the tumbling down the hills and the walking back up the hills.

Salome Schillack (22:04):

Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. It's worth. When a student tells me like a simple thing. I'm like "What Facebook ads?" Facebook ads is really if you think about it, the most ridiculous thing on the planet. It's just like we're just putting these tiny little messages on our phones, on other people's phones.

Claire Yee (22:25):

Yeah. It's [crosstalk 00:22:26].

Salome Schillack (22:27):

The life change that it affects. When someone's business that was failing before is now succeeding because they made one small change to an ad that it's just, it's phenomenal. It is phenomenal. It really is.

Claire Yee (22:42):

And sometimes it does just take that tweaking, those little tweaks.

Salome Schillack (22:46):

Yeah. Or it just takes someone to just look at it and go, "Yeah, but you got the wrong audience." Or "Yes, your headline is not hitting." Or an instant one small thing or in my case, I wish when I first launched my first course and I paid $400 for ads and I made $2,000, I wish somebody told me how amazing that was. If I can be that for someone else that might be worthwhile. If I can be the person to say, how amazing is, how are you doing then and that sort of stuff.

Claire Yee (23:22):

But really are. And because in our own minds, when we create content and write, copy, it sounds really good, but for somebody else to read it, it's so good to hear somebody else read it and get that feedback and go, "Just tweak these words or change this around to a question instead of a statement." Little things like that can make such a difference.

Salome Schillack (23:43):

Because when we're in it, we just what's the expression? You can't see the forest through the trees.

Claire Yee (23:49):

Yes. Exactly.

Salome Schillack (23:51):

What has been something that comes really naturally and really easy to you that you see other people struggle with?

Claire Yee (23:57):

I think connecting with people is something that comes really natural to me. I can't say I've necessarily seen other people struggle with it so much, but making those connections and building those relationships I've seen over the years and building those relationships, that's where the transformation, not only in your business and the conversions happen, but also yeah in their own lives. It all begins from that relationship. And I think that's why I love. And I think that's one of the things that is so beautiful about working with people. It's those relationships that you can both.

Salome Schillack (24:36):

And I think it's that energy that you have where you build relationships with people that comes across on your sales pages so well. That makes us when we read your sales page, everyone in the group goes, "Oh," it makes everyone feels warm and fuzzy and we all want to go out and have more babies.

Claire Yee (24:57):

And the cute little photos of the babies also [crosstalk 00:25:00].

Salome Schillack (24:59):

Oh the photos [crosstalk 00:25:03], they get me every time. Yes. I'm going to start using baby pictures to sell my services too. And Puppies, puppies, and babies.

Claire Yee (25:17):

It's golden.

Salome Schillack (25:18):

So for someone listening, who is in your shoes, maybe when you were niche hopping or for someone listening who's in your shoes when you were spending money on ads and not making any money, what's your best advice for them?

Claire Yee (25:35):

I think you said it so beautifully before where it's all about being in that play and keeping it light and experimental and being curious rather than black and white success or failure. Those two zones are not healthy. Even the success sign isn't necessarily healthy because then when you try it next time around and it's not as good as last time, that's hard.

Salome Schillack (26:00):

Yeah. Of when you attach identity to that success.

Claire Yee (26:03):

Oh my gosh. It gets huge. Yeah. So don't take anything personally. It's all an experiment and be in that realm of play as much as possible and get some besties on your team, even if it's your own business to make those connections and having that support to just bring you back into that realm of play and adventure and curiosity is so beautiful.

Salome Schillack (26:31):

Yeah, it is. It is. And I feel like slowing down to get into the plane, curiosity will speed it up for you.

Claire Yee (26:39):

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think also simplifying, when you say slowing down, it's so important as entrepreneurs to take that time for ourselves. We do so much for other people and we put so much energy into our businesses and into our families and things like that. And just really taking that time to give to ourselves and check in with what we need allows us that space and that breath to then be able to reflect back into our business and to see the things that, "Okay, where is that like 20% of things that I'm doing that's giving me the 80% of the results that I'm getting?" And just do those things make it much easier for yourself.

Salome Schillack (27:25):

That is so true. That's so true. I find that when I have been ... I tried to take two weeks holiday, at least two weeks. I have taken six weeks before. I mean, when you rest, really rest and use a bit of time. And I find that when I come back, I have this energy, creative energy that builds like that's a force of its own. It just happens when you rest properly.

Claire Yee (27:55):

It really does. You tap back into your inspiration, you've got more access to your creativity brain and if we're not inspired in our business, it becomes super hard.

Salome Schillack (28:07):

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I think I tend to have some ADHD tendencies, which means that my brain is just the noise. The noise is constant and I find it hard to switch off on weekends. The entire weekend every now and then my husband would say to me like, "Where are you?" And I would be solving some business problem. And over time that starts to wear us down. And because the noise just gets more and more. Of course, the more noise you create, the more noise there is.

Claire Yee (28:44):

Yeah, absolutely.

Salome Schillack (28:46):

Having that, like what you said just that rest and recovery time quiets the noise.

Claire Yee (28:53):

Especially if we lose sight of why we're doing this in the first place, so many of us are doing it so that we can have more time with our family and with our kids. But we're not actually present with them. And we're so busy thinking about the business and on our phones all the time and constantly on social media. It's like well, what's the point? You might as well go and get a job.

Salome Schillack (29:17):

Exactly. or at least you need to be honest with yourself and then say, "Well, I'm not really doing it to be with my family. I'm doing it to make money." If your logic is "Well, when I make money, then I'll spend more time with my family." That's not going to happen.

Claire Yee (29:34):

It's not going to happen. I think you've got to make that happen now and build that as part of your business model. And that takes a lot of discipline. Doesn't it? When it's your own business that you're building, you need to have that self discipline to have "This is the time of working. This is the time it's family time. This is the time for me."

Salome Schillack (29:53):

And I want to add to the self-discipline. I feel like it requires courage to be that disciplined because it's easy to go "Well yeah, let me just do these other things. Let me just violate my own rules. Let me just not abide by my own self-discipline so that I can react to what someone else wants from me." And that puts you immediately in a response mode and it puts you in a fear mode and it puts you in a lack of abundance mode. Immediately you're going to lack. And then once you're there with your time, you're just not giving the best of yourself.

Claire Yee (30:33):

Yeah, and not productive as well. Whereas if you split that time to say, "Okay, I'm replying to emails in this chunk of time." I think you get through it so much faster. You just bang it all out and then it's done. And then you can go and have that other time. So it is about being in your own power in your business, isn't it? And empowered by your business rather than having the business control you and all the demands and everything.

Salome Schillack (31:00):

Yeah, that is so true. I love talking to you. We can talk about this for hours.

Claire Yee (31:04):

We absolutely can.

Salome Schillack (31:06):

Claire, where can people learn more about you if they are expected to mothers wanting to learn about hypnobirthing, or if they just want to connect with you because you're connect worthy and want to create a relationship with you? Where do they find you?

Claire Yee (31:20):

If you're in New Zealand, you can come to my website aucklandhypnobirthing.co.nz. Otherwise, claireyee.com is a great way to find me as well. Flick me an email. And if you type in Claire Yee, you'll find me on social media as well.

Salome Schillack (31:36):

That's awesome. And we'll link to Claire Yee and to the hypnobirthing site in New Zealand on the show notes. So anyone who wants to connect with Claire can go and find her there. Thank you so much. You are a bright light that shines inside my community. And thank you for just the way that you show up and the beautiful love that you spread in the world.

Claire Yee (31:59):

My pleasure Salome. Thank you for being the light that has brought us all together. It's just such a precious place.

Salome Schillack (32:04):

It is. It is indeed a precious place. You're very welcome. Thank you Claire.

Claire Yee (32:09):

My pleasure. Bye.

Salome Schillack (32:11):

Bye. Well, there you go. You heard it from the horses mouth. The Launch Lounge is an amazing community of online course, launchers supporting each other and learning from me and with me how to really create profitable launches repeatedly and how to track the important data that you need to know if you are ready to scale courses. The Launch Lounge is opening up again soon. And if you want to be notified exactly when, then make sure you get on the wait list and you can do that by going to shineandsucceed.com/tllwaitlist that's TLL for The Launch Lounge, shineandsucceed.com/tllwaitlist. I hope you all have a lovely week and I will speak to you again next week. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening. If you had fun, please come back next week and remember to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a thing.