102. Building a Joyful Business with Lianne Kim

04 May 2021 | By Salome Schillack

What did a high-achieving, super successful business coach, podcast host and mom of two do when COVID hit?

She decided to put together her years of experience and create the ULTIMATE handbook to help entrepreneurs build joy into every single aspect of their business.

As women, we’re so used to saying yes to help and no to anyone who offers it. 

We think it’s all about the hustle. About working harder, making more money and then doing it all over again, in half the time. 


We hit the burnout wall.

Lianne wrote her book to create a tool that would help female entrepreneurs avoid these common mistakes, discover their true potential and build a joyful business.

Tune in to today’s episode where we’ll chat about:

  • How jealousy can be healthy
  • Why women need to make a 5-year vision
  • What is dream deprivation and what you can do about it
  • Lianne’s advice to women in hustle mode
  • How to create joy in every part of your business

Start listening now

Can’t wait to grab a copy of Lianne’s book? Head over here and enter the code: SHINE to get a special 15% off on your purchase!

When you subscribe and review the podcast not only does that give me the warm and fuzzies all over, it also helps other people to find the show.

When other people find the show they get to learn how to create more freedom in their lives from their online courses too!!

So do a good deed for all womenkind and subscribe and review this show and I will reward you with a shout out on the show!!


175. We’re Taking A Break. Here’s Why And How You Can Do It Too


174. Some Thoughts On Making Lots Of Money


173. 3 Reasons NOW Is The Best Time To Start A Digital Courses Business with Amy Porterfield


172. 25 Biggest Lessons In Online Marketing I Learned From Amy Porterfield


171. Social Media: One Thing That Makes All The Effort Worthwhile


170. How to Choose the Right Name for Your Online Course


169. Content Planning For Posts VS Content For Your Course And Launches


168. Managing Your Money As A Small Business Owner with Darcie Milfeld


167. 3 Lies You Were Told About Hiring An Ads Manager


166. How To Create Your Online Course Faster with Gina Onativia


165. The Only Way Low Dollar Offers Are Working Today


164. New Ad Targeting Options That Are Working Now

Salome Schillack (00:00):

This is episode number 102 of The Shine Show. And this one is called: Building a Joyful Business with Lianne Kim. Now, before I tell you about Lianne, I just want to stop for a moment and take a minute. If you have not yet heard me say how incredibly loved and taken care of and natured and... You guys just filled my tank. Thank you so much for all the beautiful ratings and reviews that you gave me on Apple Podcasts and for taking the time to send it through to me on Instagram in DM. I was absolutely blown away. You guys have said the most amazing things that mean the world to me, because every day I get up, every day I come to work I'm like, "Please, can I help someone today? Can I please just make a difference for someone? Can I teach someone a shortcut that I had to learn the hard way." And when you guys send those things through, it just makes me want to leap out of bed in the morning and I feel incredibly loved. So thank you from the very bottom of my heart.

Now, today's episode, I am talking to my friend Leanne Kim. Leanne is just one of those women that you meet and you think, "Wow, this girl can do it all." She makes it look so easy. And then when you get to know her, you realize that she is vulnerable and she wears her heart on her sleeve. And she fails, but she always gets up. She's just so incredibly relatable that I sometimes feel like we are sisters on opposite ends of the world and we're building the same businesses from the other end of the world. It's like we're doing the same thing at the same pace and we always have the same challenges and we always have the same breakthroughs. But this incredible powerhouse of a woman have taken the time in 2020 while COVID was in its full COVID-ness, and she was at home with her kids, working from home while she was homeschooling her kids, to write a book because why not? Why wouldn't you write a book in 2020? But that's the kind of girl that Leanne is. Her book is called Building a Joyful Business.

I can testify as somebody who knows Leanne well, that if you're going to learn how to build a joyful business, and how to really find the joy in your business and find the joy in your life and build a business so that you can have more joy in your life, then Lianne is your girl.

Leanne is a business coach and founder of Mamas & Co. It's a community for mama entrepreneurs. She's the host of the wildly popular podcast, The Business of Thinking Big, and the author of the brand new book, Building a Joyful Business. Lianne is on a mission to help women make a great living on their own terms, doing what they love, which sounds exactly like you and me. Let's jump into my interview with Leanne Kim.

Giving up your time and freedom to make money is so 2009. Hi, I'm your host, Salome Schillack, and I help online course creators launch, grow, and scale their businesses with Facebook and Instagram ads so that they can make more money and have an even bigger impact in the world. If you're ready to be inspired, to dream bigger, launch sooner and grow your online business faster, then tune in because you are ready to shine, and this is The Shine Show.

Lianne, welcome to The Shine Show. I am so happy to see you. I feel like you're my long-lost friend because I haven't seen you in such a... I saw you so regularly and then COVID happened and I haven't seen you in such a long time. And you wrote a book.

Lianne Kim (03:56):

Yes, I did. Because, you know, I didn't have enough on my plate this past year. So why the hell not?

Salome Schillack (04:03):

Yeah, why not take that on along with homeschooling and running a very successful business. To start off, I just want you to tell the listeners... Can I just share a little anecdote of us?

Lianne Kim (04:14):

Please. Please.

Salome Schillack (04:16):

You and I know each other from Rick Mulready's amazing community. I feel like it was 100 years ago, but it was probably only maybe three years ago. And I will never ever forget the day... I hope you don't mind me sharing this. The day when you looked at me and you got a little bit emotional and you said, "I know why I don't like Facebook ads. It's because it reminds me of science class in school and it brings up that feeling." And my heart just broke. Since then, I've had so many moments with other people where I can see that in their faces and I go, "I get it. I get it and I'm going to help you." So you gave me a very big gift that day.

Lianne Kim (04:57):

Oh yes, I remember. I remember weeping about it and realizing like doing work that doesn't light you up, that isn't your wheelhouse, brings up all kinds of negative feelings. But that really unlocked something for me. Was like there's just certain things that I'm not meant to be doing in my business, that is just not my gift. Not only is it not my gift, like I could care less. Who doesn't? I just wanted to... I'm so grateful that that's the memory that you have of me. I have many fun memories of you too actually back from those days. It seems like a lifetime ago, but here we are. Here we are.

Salome Schillack (05:33):

Here we are. I just want to say I've been watching your stories and watching their Instagram this last year. And I know there's been many ups and downs for you with COVID and with having your kids at home and everything, but tell me a little bit about what inspired your book? Your book is called Building a Joyful Business. And I will tell you that I made a decision this year that the purpose of life is joy, and everything else has to line up with that. So how did you get to Building a Joyful Business?

Lianne Kim (06:04):

Oh, such a good question. Well, I like many women, after having children, everything changed for me. I was sick and tired of making money for somebody else. And I think you and I have this in common too. Like high achiever, very good at what I did, I just didn't love it anymore. I realized that I wanted to spend as much time with my kids when they were little. And so I went out on my own. And in the first year, I literally called it the year of the hustle. #Yearofthehustle. I was so proud of all the things I was doing to grow my business and I was out there and I was running here and there and trying this offer and this message. And sure I'll do a bit of consulting, because why the hell not? And that's what you do when you're in the first year. You're just running on adrenaline. And then I hit a wall [inaudible 00:07:00].

Salome Schillack (06:59):

Yes you do. Yeah.

Lianne Kim (07:02):

I hit a wall. I talked about it in the book. I had burnout pretty hard in my first year and I had just taken on too much. I didn't have a lot of systems in place. I definitely didn't have a team. I was resisting a lot of the things that I knew were going to help me grow.

And so that first year taught me so much. And even then, I was coaching female entrepreneurs. I still do that, but I'm able to borrow from the lessons of my own first couple of years. And the stuff that I see again and again, I'm sure you see it too. Like there's just these common issues that primarily female entrepreneurs face over and over again, that I thought, what if I could give them a tool that would help them avoid all the mistakes I made in the first couple years? At a very, very low cost, because I love what I do and I believe I'm one of the best business coaches in the world. But I also know that not everyone is in a position to go, "Okay, headfirst into working with a coach."

So I thought I'd love to give people something, a tool that they can use, that they can come back to again and again. And that's sort of really, I would say the catalyst for me too, because it ties in with how we know how I got here and why I did this. The catalyst really was COVID-19. Because I think a lot of us were living with businesses that weren't lighting us up, that really weren't serving us. We were living with it, but we were kind of like sweeping it under the rug. You know what I mean?

Salome Schillack (08:36):

Yeah, getting [inaudible 00:08:37] with it.

Lianne Kim (08:38):

Yes, just getting by. And then when COVID hit, I think everything just bubbled to the surface. And so many women realize, "Oh, my God, I haven't built a business that lights me up. I haven't built a business that I can step away from and be a mom when I need to be a mom, or be a caregiver to my aging parents when I need to do that." We build these businesses primarily because we want to have more joy and more fun in our lives. And then what starts to happen is the opposite. It's all because of a series of choices we inadvertently make in the early days that sometimes we look up and we find we've built ourselves a prison. Right?

Salome Schillack (08:38):


Lianne Kim (09:18):

And so COVID really brought a lot of that to light and I thought, "Okay, this book that I've been sitting on..." I think you know this has been in me for a while. I've wanted to write something for a while. But all of a sudden the topic came. It was like Building a Joyful Business. Clear as day and I was like, "The time is now." I gave a call to my friend, Sabrina Greer, who is a publisher and I said, "How quickly could we get this out? Could we get this out by spring?" And this was July of last year? And she was like, "How quickly can you write it?" And I said, "If I get a first draft to you by Labor Day, could we get this out by the spring?" And she said, "Yeah, for sure." And that's what we did.

Salome Schillack (09:54):

That is phenomenal. Well, congratulations. You are an overachiever. And so this does not surprise me at all. When I saw you were saying you wrote a book I as like, "Of course, Lianne has written a book in COVID."

You said something important. You said you resisted doing the things that you knew you should be doing to create a more joyful business. Why do you think we resist doing what we know we should be doing?

Lianne Kim (10:23):

Well, there's a couple reasons. I think we as women are used to saying yes to everything, and we are not good at asking for help. We are so used to just, "You know what? Just let me do it." I think about like if a child of mine has an issue and my husband tries to step in and I'm like, "No, you know what, just leave this one to me." We're terrible at asking for help. We're terrible at receiving help. And I also think a lot of us are not innately strong in understanding our strengths and weaknesses. And that's what the first year of business is. It's like that's when you figure out what you are gifted at and what really should be done by somebody else. But I think a lot of times we resist it because of the fear that we can't afford it. I hear that all the time.

Salome Schillack (11:11):

Yes. And when in actual fact, finding the money to give someone else to do the things that are not your strength is often the key to that freedom, isn't it?

Lianne Kim (11:22):

Yeah, yeah. And when I think back to the time that I met you, I think I had one other person in the business. I had a business partnership that was coming to an abrupt end, and I had one person to help. And it seemed so crazy to me to think that I had to have this person in order to get by. I needed a right hand in order to get by. Now we have like nine people on the team and growing every couple months. I am so grateful that I made that mental shift and did that work, because had I continue to just say, "Oh, I'll take it on." Or, "We'll figure it out." I would have stayed exactly where I was. I would have stayed like $100,000 a year. That's it. That's the ceiling for me.

But I think starting to realize and starting to ask those questions like, "Why am I not where that person is? Why do I not have that joyful business, that lucrative business that person has?" That's when you start to go, "Oh, yeah, because I'm not doing the things that she's doing."

Salome Schillack (12:25):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's different than looking at someone else and comparing yourself to that person, or looking at someone else and feeling less than. That is more looking at someone else and going, "What can I learn from this person? What has this person done that I can do too?"

Lianne Kim (12:42):

Totally. I mean, this is a credit to you. You really taught me that. Is that when you are feeling yourself wanting something that someone else has, that's such a great gift. It means that there's further to go for you, it means that there's something bigger than you. When you shared that with me, that was a moment of, "Oh, I'm getting ready to expand because I'm only going to tolerate being here for so long."

And so leaning into and really kind of... That period of my journey was really about getting curious about what is working and what's not working, and why is it not working, and what's my mindset around this problem? I mean, for years, I had a mindset issue around digital marketing. I told myself all kinds of... I mean, we do this. We tell ourselves all kinds of stories to make it mean all kinds of things, that we're not good at something. That was the season in life that I met you and I met Rick and Leah and all those other amazing entrepreneurs who really helped me unlock that mindset piece. So I'm so super grateful for that. Thank you so much.

Salome Schillack (13:52):

Oh, wow. I don't even remember saying that, but I'm happy that I did say it. It's funny that I said that to you because I am on a journey at the moment, really allowing myself desires without judging the desires because that's a thing we do. We go, well, I want this experience, or I want a business that looks like someone else's, and I desire that, but then we judge ourselves. It's kind of like, "A little old me, would I have that? Can I do that? I don't think I should be wanting that." We put ourselves down and I've made a rule inside my community, no apologizing for asking for help, no apologizing for sharing your wins. It's this kind of almost a pandemic, I feel, amongst women and we all do it. We do not give ourselves enough permission to desire.

Lianne Kim (14:50):

So true.

Salome Schillack (14:50):

Yeah. So I'm glad you said that because I think it is so important. I say to my kids, there's magic in jealousy. A kid can be jealous and it is such a pure jealousy. When we're adults, we learn to smile and nod and pretend we're not jealous. Just expresses it. And I go, what if we can just express that and then go, "Oh, hello. What is this feeling? This feeling is jealousy? What does this tell me about my desires?" And then lean into that.

Lianne Kim (15:27):

I'm so glad you brought up the J word. Thank you. That was, by the way, that nugget of wisdom that did come from a moment of jealousy that I was having. So in my book, I actually share a story that I have never really told publicly about jealousy. And that is, in the early days of being a young adult, just coming out of university, I was making a cool $24,000 a year and I thought-

Salome Schillack (15:52):

Oh, you were on fire.

Lianne Kim (15:53):

Yeah, and I thought that was normal. I thought this is how much grownups make. And my sister, who is six years older than me, she just met the man of her dreams. They'd just come back from this amazing one-year trip backpacking around the world, they settled down, they bought their home, they were about to start their family. And she starts a frigging business. She opens up a photography business. And here I am barely making ends meet, single as fuck, lonely, depressed, not living my best life by any means. Barely scraping together enough money for rent and food. And it just seemed like she had it all. And I remember thinking like, "She's starting a business? Who does she think she is?" And then the jealousy kicked in. "Oh, well, she can do that because she's got a partner that supports. She can do that because my parents always liked her better," and all the things. And that was really the seedling to me like, is it really possible to do what you love and make good money? Is that even a thing? I mean, I was just like 23 years old at the time. Thank God I call bs on myself. I mean, it took me a while though, took a while.

Salome Schillack (17:11):

Yeah, but it's because you sat in the pain of that jealousy. I think that's the key. Is that I have discovered that it is not about pretending we're not jealous. It's about going, "Yes, I'm jealous. I'm very jealous." And why? And why? Because clearly, that lady's got something I want. So then how? And then to go, "I give you permission to have that amazing thing. And by giving you permission to have that amazing thing, I'm also giving myself permission to have that amazing thing and to desire that thing and to go after it." And that is kind of where we start to unlock women really supporting women.

Lianne Kim (17:52):

I mean, amen to that. 110%. The truth is, I think it takes everyone a different pace to get to that point where you're able to ask yourself, "Okay, I got this done now. I have had the kids, I've had the maternity leaves, we've got the house, now what do I really want?" It just it didn't seem like something I was able to ask myself when I was getting my life together. And then lo and behold, I had my two kids, had them pretty close together. And here in Canada, I think you know we get these glorious one-year 18-month maternity leaves. So I took a year with both my kids. And in that time, where it didn't have to be working for someone else, it really freed me up to think about like, "What do I actually want in life?" Now that the bs is kind of done, that point I felt was the first time in my life I could actually attempt doing something that I loved. I really felt like it was something in the sales and marketing space, but it was very specific to helping women business owners learn the skills that took me so long to learn.

I have over 20 years in sales and marketing now. And I think if I could just help a handful, it doesn't even need to be millions right now. If I could just help a handful of women fast track their success by learning the stuff that took me 20 years to learn, that's really what it's all about. I think it's giving ourselves permission to choose joy, as opposed to feeling like we have to choose something because it's what we should do. Or it's the right thing, or it's the prudent thing, or it's the practical thing. And that's really where the book came from. Was what if we could decide all these things? I mean, a big part of it is, choose what we do, and choose who we do it with, and choose when we do it. You get to choose that. But then somehow we forget that it is a choice and we start saying, "Well, I have to show up here because that's where that person is. I have to do it their way or else those clients are going to leave me," and all the things.

Salome Schillack (20:01):

All the things, yeah. You've just said three things. We can choose what we do, we can choose who we do it with, and we can choose when we do it. So what is your advice to women who are still in hustle mode, who are still in those first... You say one year. I say three years, because it took me three years to get out of hustle mode. What is your advice? How do we get to choose joy in what we do, when we do it, and who we do it with when we're still in hustle mode?

Lianne Kim (20:34):

Okay, these are great. Let's start with the what you do, because I think a lot of people are building businesses based on either their skills or what they think is in... I think mostly it's based on like, "I've got to pay the bills. So let me do all the things. Let me package myself a million different ways until..." It's like, "Please hire me." Like, "Oh, you want to discount? Okay, well, we can cut this back. Oh, you want me to customize? Sure, I can do that." I think we bend over backwards, trying to repackage ourselves. And the thing that I ask people to start with, and this is straight from the book, is start with that really cohesive and compelling vision for your life. Start with the five-year vision, get excited about what you want to create, no holds barred. And I even say multiple times in the book. My editor called me out because he's like, "It's a bit repetitively, Leanne." But the sky's the limit.

Salome Schillack (21:28):


Lianne Kim (21:28):

We have to start from that place of as you even just mentioned, dreaming big is such a big part of growing and achieving. If we're not letting ourselves dream big, it's never going to happen. We have to see it in our mind first. And so I encourage people to start with having that compelling vision.

And then the very next chapter is your role in that vision. That's really kind of understanding what's your special sauce? What are people over the moon excited to pay you to do? I think when we come from that place alone, like what do I truly want from my life? And then what am I just so great at? What starts to happen is we realize all the ways that we're mucking it up. We see all these different places where we're creating too many things and it's confusing to our audience. We're charging very little, because we think, "Oh, did you have this in the first year? Let me do this on volume." Right?

Salome Schillack (22:29):

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Lianne Kim (22:31):

I'll just be the most affordable business coach, and I'll serve as many people, everyone will want my services. And so when you start to just sort of say, "This is what I want. This is how I want to deliver it." Just those two things alone, you'll notice a whole bunch of things that you're doing that no longer fit. That to me is power and that's one of the purposes of the book. Is to provide that clarity of what you actually want first, as opposed to making decisions from a place of... A lot of this is scarcity.

Salome Schillack (23:03):


Lianne Kim (23:04):

If I don't do all those things, and if I don't do it their way, the money will dry up, the business will stop coming.

Salome Schillack (23:11):

And the irony is that in my business, every time I have made those boundaries narrower and narrower and narrower, there's more business.

Lianne Kim (23:22):

Totally. Totally.

Salome Schillack (23:22):

Like it's the most backwards thing. The more things you say no to, the more attractive you become.

Lianne Kim (23:29):

I agree completely. I feel like it's a little bit like the playing hard to get, right?

Salome Schillack (23:29):


Lianne Kim (23:34):

You make yourself available to everybody, you give off that desperate vibe. One of the ways I see this, this is not in a book, by the way. But one of the ways I see this is when you book in and someone says, "Oh, you want a discovery call with me? Here's my calendar." And you go in, and there's like 73 spots available in a one-week span. And you're like, "Wow, you're really, really available."

When you start to put those blinders on and put those boundaries in place. And this is a big part about the who. Putting boundaries in place and then finding customers who not only appreciate those boundaries, but uphold them, and respect you for them. You start to draw people to you like a magnet because of what you do. And I think we forget that. We think that we've got to do it their way and it's the opposite. I used to say with selling like, people like to be told what to do. People like you, if it's your business, they want you to step up and take the lead. Believe it or not, that's actually what they want, rather than you saying, "Oh, we could meet Friday or Thursday on Zoom or on phone. You choose whatever you want." We need to start creating those boundaries. And when we do, what we'll find is the right ones will flock to us and the wrong ones will just kind of fall away really.

Salome Schillack (24:56):

Yeah, they just fall away. And that's so true for any one who has a service-based business. So Facebook ads managers, or coaches, business coaches like you. I feel like the more we want to accommodate other people's disrespect of our boundaries, the worst clients we create.

Lianne Kim (25:16):

Oh, totally.

Salome Schillack (25:18):

It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You try to please by giving in on your boundaries, and what ends up happening is you create a miserable client, because you end up being miserable. Once you have that vision, and I want to add to creating that vision, it was really hard for me sitting down creating a five-year vision, because it's a muscle that I'd never used before. Because I was so well trained in hustle, I was so well trained in survival, that it was such a foreign idea sitting down to create this five-year plan, that I had to practice it. I can honestly say that for the first time in my life, really in the last year, have I gotten to a point where I now have that five-year vision and I can kind of see where it's going. But it does take practice, doesn't it?

Lianne Kim (26:07):

It totally takes practice. And the other thing that happens is it evolves over time. And for many people, that can be a little bit scary. When I do this live and in-person in my full-day strategy jams with clients, with my with my VIPs, it is not unusual for them to get super emotional, or even to shed tears because they're giving themselves permission, to use your words, to have a vision for themselves that they never had before. And for some of them, it's extremely liberating. But for others, it can be very scary to say, "Whoa, I never realized I wanted that so badly. Wow." And it forces us up a notch. It forces us to think ahead. And I think a lot of women get a little scared too with like the five years seems really long anything can happen. "What if I want it really badly and then it doesn't come true?" I get that a lot. Like, "What happens if I create this vision, Lianne, and then it doesn't come true?" I think it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Because everything I have, and you're living proof too, everything we have in our lives right now, 10 years ago or 15 years ago was once just a dream.

Salome Schillack (27:28):

Yeah, absolutely.

Lianne Kim (27:29):

And here we are, you and I, living the life with these great families and these great businesses and getting to do all this amazing stuff. Thank God we kept dreaming, but it can feel hard. I think the pandemic did that to a lot of people. And even me, I'm going to confess, there was a season there where I had just... Because I couldn't travel, because we couldn't go and do these great outdoor excursions like I wanted with my kids, I just stopped, I just stopped dreaming. And then I realized not too long ago, a couple months ago, I was like, "Whoa, I'm feeling real dream deprivation here."

Salome Schillack (28:05):

Dream deprivation. I love that. That's the thing.

Lianne Kim (28:09):

I hadn't even realized it. And so I gave myself permission to just carve out what I call the #CEOtime. Create those pockets in your day, in your week, where you are not working in or on the business at all. You're just out of the business entirely. I dedicated a whole chapter to this because I feel so passionately we need more play in our lives.

Salome Schillack (28:32):

Yes. Yes, yes. And as soon as you find yourself going in a stress, anxiety, hustle mode, what I found is my desire is to work more. And that's where you have to go, the thing that you need to do is stop and rest. And then magically, all those things that you had to do disappear.

Lianne Kim (28:53):

Yes. I would say rest is a big one, but also making time for things that fuel you. And some days that is rest. Other days, that's a long, luxurious walk in a beautiful park in your area. And other days that's playing hooky and going to the beach with your kids. If we are not pausing to do those things, then what the hell are we doing any of this for really-

Salome Schillack (29:16):


Lianne Kim (29:17):

... at the end of the day?

And I get in seasons too where I'm like nose to the grindstone, I'm in a launch or I'm in a busy season. When we're not in those modes, I really try to carve out more of that CEO time, that sort of just mental white space too. I mean, that's where the best ideas come from too, right?

Salome Schillack (29:38):

That's true. That's where we have our creative genius. I find that if I go on a three-week holiday, the first week, I'm still working in my head the whole time. The second week, I start to relax. The third week, I change the world. I have the base division, so I am trying to create a discipline of taking at least two, three-week holidays per year. Because the magic that happens in week three... I mean, for some people listening, a three-week holiday probably sounds like an incredibly indulgent thing. And yes, it is. I desire it and therefore I create it, because I can and that gives me enjoy.

Lianne Kim (30:21):

I would say to those people who are listening, thinking, "Lucky her, she can take three weeks off." If that's something you desire, notice that, put it on your five-year vision. And then in the meantime, can you mimic that some way? Because I was going to say, I think you would find the same results if you only had seven days. I think you would go through those same three phases. And I do too. And for me, it's funny. I love being away from my business, I love travel. But my husband, myself, and our two kids, like 10 days is like the sweet spot for us. Because I find any longer, and I'm itching and ready to come back. So we do a few 10-day trips a year and that's perfect in terms of like that really condensed... I mean, let's face it, we've had a lot of family time this past year.

Salome Schillack (31:11):


Lianne Kim (31:13):

I don't know that I need any more at this minute, but... It's about finding ways to do the things that are on that five-year vision and living it now. Not saying, "I'm going to get there, and then I'll give myself permission to take the three-weeks off." If all you can take is three days, then by God, take three days, leave the laptop, go someplace beautiful, and really reconnect with whatever it is you're looking to reconnect with.

If we're if we're putting all that stuff off, and this is really the idea where the book came from. Was one of our company values, is we bake the fun in from day one.

Salome Schillack (31:50):

I love that.

Lianne Kim (31:52):

Yeah. I mean, how many women do you meet that go, "Oh, that sounds great. I'll do that when I get to seven figures." Or, "I'll do that when my teams are all in tip top." You're never done building a business. So you might as well have fun along the way, right?

Salome Schillack (32:09):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that makes everything easier and more abundant and just gets you closer to what you want.

Lianne Kim (32:17):

So true.

Salome Schillack (32:17):

With the five-year plan talk a little bit about... I'll kind of want to wrap it up with this. But talk a little bit about the importance of that five-year plan evolving and changing, because you said sometimes you hear women say, "But what if I don't reach the five-year plan?" I'm wondering if the purpose of the five-year plan is not necessarily to reach the five-year plan. It is to reveal our own desires to us and I'm a guide.

Lianne Kim (32:49):

A really big part of that is, it's a five-year vision and not a five-year plan for that exact reason.

Salome Schillack (32:55):

Oh, I like that distinction. It's a vision not a plan.

Lianne Kim (32:59):

Yes. Chapter one is the vision. And then every chapter after that takes up basically a peek inside one of the areas of your business, where you could be infusing more joy. So your customers is one of them, and making sure you only work with dream customers. Your sales. Feeling great about how you make money is so important. Your team and I'm a big advocate for even if you're hiring your first VA, at five hours a month, because that's all I could afford, speaking from experience. Your schedule. All these areas are areas where you are making it harder than it needs to be and you could be choosing more joy than pain. So the vision really is, it sets the tone for the work that I do with people. And then from there, you get to sort of take a peek and see where you really need to tighten things up.

And I would say 100%, your vision should evolve and change. I think back to the things that were so important to me when you and I met, and a lot of it was based on external validation. Feeling desired, feeling accomplished, other people thinking of me in a certain way. And now, I mean, that's nowhere near the things that I crave now. But I think no matter where you are, you should always be dreaming of the next. I say like if you were to step into that highest version of yourself, who is she? What is she up to? What does she feel like in her physical body? Really it is the kinds of things that can be revealed through that vision work, is really powerful, and it just keeps us moving forward. So I recommend a lot of these. I ask a series of questions or exercises in the book and I recommend that people take a peek at these things couple times a year in some cases, because let me ask you this, Salome. Your customers, the women that you serve now, are they identical to the women that you served three years ago?

Salome Schillack (35:06):

Not even a bit.

Lianne Kim (35:08):

Not even a bit.

Salome Schillack (35:08):

Not even a bit. Yeah, very different. And I am different. I'm showing up differently. It's completely different. So I'm really glad that it's evolved, I'm really glad that it's changed because it's like you say, I don't need the external validation anymore. I can be more patient, I can be more kind, I can be more resilient, I can dream bigger, I can take my time to implement things, because I have become a different person. And that makes me so excited for who I'm going to be five years from now. I know that who I think I'm going to be five years from now is my big vision for five years from now. But when I get there, oh, it's going to be so much bigger than that.

Lianne Kim (35:56):

And I can bet knowing you, you are going to make sure that you are having fun every step of the way, right?

Salome Schillack (36:03):


Lianne Kim (36:03):


Salome Schillack (36:04):

Yes, for sure.

Lianne Kim (36:05):

That's so key. I think about all of us, mamapreneurs, who are raising a family and running a business, our kids are very intuitive. And when we are feeling stressed... I can remember as a kid, I knew when my dad was stressed at work. He brought it home with him, grumble the... So we have to remember that as leaders of our family, we are also showing our children what's possible. I don't want them thinking, "Oh, my mommy was a business owner and she works 24/seven, and she's always grumpy." I want them thinking, "Yeah, my mom is a business owner and she's changing the world and she wrote a book." I want them seeing that anything is possible, but I have to set the tone for that. And if I'm not finding room for joy in my every day, and not just in the fun highlight, because we haven't had any of that in the past year. I think about all the things I used to really look forward to like trips and travel and adventure. There's been none of that. So it really is this beautiful, mindful practice of finding joy in everything you do in your business. If you can make it joyful when you choose to do that, wow.

Salome Schillack (37:23):

So well said, absolutely. Can you tell the listeners where they can learn more about you and your amazing book, please?

Lianne Kim (37:32):

Yes, so you can find me and the book at liannekim.com/book. That's L-I-A-N-N-E-K-I-M.com/book. And because I love you so much, I am going to give your listeners 15% off when they buy themselves a copy.

Salome Schillack (37:52):

Oh, how generous. Thank you so much.

Lianne Kim (37:56):

My pleasure. All they have to do is enter the code SHINE at the checkout, and they will get 15% off. And bonus, it's in Canadian dollars. So it's going to be even cheaper for your global community.

Salome Schillack (38:08):

Fantastic. My Aussies are going to love that.

Lianne Kim (38:10):


Salome Schillack (38:12):

Thank you so much. We are going to link that up in the show notes. And we'll remind you it is the word SHINE that you use at the checkout to get your 15% discount. I don't just want you guys to just buy one book, I want you guys to go out and buy 10 books. Take one for yourself and give them to nine other friends who are women making a difference in the world building a business.

Lianne Kim (38:40):

Thank you for that. I will actually say that was our plan as well. So there are two other bundles that you can buy. You can buy three books, or you can buy 10 books as well, because I serve so many women who also serve business owners that we already discounted it for you and we threw in shipping and all kinds of goodies. So yes, go enjoy. Whether you get a single copy or 10, I'm just so grateful that you would take a minute and honestly, I this is my mission. I want you to have more joy in your business. So thank you so much. Salome.

Salome Schillack (39:11):

Thank you, Lianne. I really appreciate you. I love you. And I appreciate this message that you're sharing with the world. It needs to be heard.

Lianne Kim (39:19):

Thank you.

Salome Schillack (39:20):

Well, that's it for today. Isn't Lianne just amazing? I love this girl. And I want to ask you, if we spoke about something on the show today that made you go, "Oh, yeah, that really hits a nerve for me." Or, "That's something that I had to learn as well." Or if you've had an aha moment, send me a DM on Instagram. I'm salome.schillack, which will be hooked up in the show notes for you. Send me a DM. Let me know what was it about today's show that made you go, "Oh yeah, I can relate with that." Have a wonderful, wonderful week, and I'll talk to you again next week. Bye.

Salome Schillack (40:09):

Thank you so much for listening. If you had fun, please come back next week and remember to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a thing.