Salome Schillack (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to episode number 166 of The Shine Show. Today's episode, you're going to learn how to create your online course faster with my friend, Gina Onativia. I met Gina way back in November 2017 on that life-changing trip where I saved up and saved up and saved up to buy my airplane ticket to go to San Diego to meet Amy Porterfield at her live event, her first live event for B-School students back then.
Salome Schillack (00:36):
It was a truly life-changing experience for me, investing in myself, taking the time away from my little toddlers and babies, and flying 30 hours door to door from Perth to San Diego then, but it really did change my life. I signed up for clients, and I came home and I quit my job.
Salome Schillack (00:57):
And Gina is one of the people I met at that event. She was working with Amy back then, we have been close ever since, we catch up every time I'm in San Diego. She is just a wonderful person, and she has her own professional... well, her own business helping online course creators, map out their online courses.
Salome Schillack (01:19):
So it's so fabulous for me that people like Gina exist, because like me, maybe you're struggling with outlining your course. Maybe the marketing piece comes easy for you, it's the teaching piece that's not so easy, and if that is you, you are going to love today's interview. So stay tuned to hear my interview with Gina.
Salome Schillack (01:43):
Giving up your time and freedom to make money is so 2009. Hi, I'm your host, Salome Schillack, and I help online course creators launch, grow, and scale their businesses with Facebook and Instagram ads, so that they can make more money and have an even bigger impact in the world. If you are ready to be inspired, to dream bigger, launch sooner, and grow your online business faster, then tune in because you are ready to shine, and this is The Shine Show.
Salome Schillack (02:16):
Gina, hello, and welcome to The Shine Show.
Gina Onativia (02:20):
So excited to be here, thanks for having me on.
Salome Schillack (02:23):
You are so welcome. You and I go way, way back. Right?
Gina Onativia (02:28):
Salome Schillack (02:28):
You were at Amy Porterfield's live event that changed my entire life and made me quit my job and go full in.
Gina Onativia (02:38):
Love it. Love it. The Finish event. Right? Was it the Finish event?
Salome Schillack (02:42):
Yeah. Well, it was the B-School, it was the first B-School live event. You and I did video testimonials for her B-School.
Gina Onativia (02:51):
Yes, that's right. Okay, wow.
Salome Schillack (02:55):
Yeah. So at that event, I signed up for clients and came home and quit my job.
Gina Onativia (03:01):
Oh my gosh, and you are the juggernaut today because of that event.
Salome Schillack (03:06):
I am juggernaut, I will take it. You call me the juggernaut all day, any day, I love it.
Gina Onativia (03:10):
Oh, there will be many wonderful adjectives coming out as part of this interview, let's bring out.
Salome Schillack (03:16):
Well, I have just been a fan of yours and I love everything you do. I'm a practical, hands on just like you, I just want to get my hands dirty and do stuff and you are such a great course creator and you help so many people get their courses out of their heads and into the world, but tell us just a little bit of your journey how did you get to do what you do now?
Gina Onativia (03:39):
Yeah, so I have Amy Porterfield to thank as well, and we used to work together. Tony Robbins, he used to boss me around all the time, and I was pregnant with my son, Tristan, and I was about to get birth to Tristan and she says to me, "You know, when you take maternity leave you don't have to go back, you can quit your job, you can go into courses, you're great at them, they're the future and build a business."
Gina Onativia (04:07):
And because Ames said that day, that's exactly what I did. I quit my job, Tristan was three months old and I went into building courses. So there you go, Ames inspired both of us I mean, how could you not be inspired by her. Right?
Salome Schillack (04:24):
Gina Onativia (04:25):
And the rest is history. So just really double down on course development and course creation.
Salome Schillack (04:31):
That's fantastic. Do you have a background in education or how did you just become so good at knowing how to put things in a course?
Gina Onativia (04:38):
Well, I'm working for Tony Robbins, so I got to build courses for him for five plus years in the studio and just learning from Pam Hendrickson, worked for him for 20 plus years, she's an absolute genius, learning from Amy and just getting hands on training, and then that's when I learned about marketing as well and so I got to benefit from the content creation and the marketing aspect. It was incredible, I think back about that education and how intense and how much I learned and I'm so grateful.
Salome Schillack (05:10):
Oh, that's so beautiful. That is so... I love that and that just... I genuinely believe that when... We have to lean into whatever it is that we're learning in our jobs and in life before we get to this entrepreneurial journey-
Gina Onativia (05:29):
Salome Schillack (05:29):
... because I can tell you, I use every single thing from every, even the suckiest job, even from being a waitress, I would say I apply stuff today, from those jobs and you just, it's because you just have to integrate it into yourself and then you go, "Oh hang on, there's something here."
Gina Onativia (05:49):
I love that, I love... And you can hear it in your podcast. How you brought that perspective to each and every topic, I love hearing how your mind works.
Salome Schillack (05:59):
Aw, thank you. My mind is a weird and wonderful place. So you and I had a little chat and talked about some of the biggest mistakes, that online course creators make when they start trying to pull out the information that's in their heads and putting it into a, an online course.
Salome Schillack (06:21):
Because we all start our online courses business, because we believe we have something to give, we have a creative passion and we have knowledge that will help other people and we want the money, we want to be paid for the knowledge that's in our heads. So let's talk a little bit about some of the biggest mistakes you see online course creators make when they start trying to pull their knowledge out of their heads.
Gina Onativia (06:50):
Yeah. So I think first and foremost, and you said it that I think a lot of times we say, "I have a passion for this. I'm going to create a course on it!" And that's great, I love passion, I love excitement, but what you and I both know that they need and I know you talk about this, is validation. Right?
Salome Schillack (07:05):
Gina Onativia (07:05):
They need, you need to know that you have an audience, not only that you have an audience that wants to listen to you, but that wants to put down their credit card for you and I know you talk about this.
Gina Onativia (07:16):
And to do that validation, do those interviews, I'm a big fan of getting on the phone and talking to people and talking through and asking them, "Would you, what have you used before? What solutions have you tried? Would you try something like this? Would you pay this price point? What other things have you paid for?" And really drilling down on, is this your person? Is this your audience? And do you have a buying audience? And I think sometimes we shy away from that because we think it might kill the dream. Right?
Salome Schillack (07:45):
Yeah. And it's that self honesty of like, "Yeah, we're too afraid to do it because we're afraid it'll kill the dream but man, wouldn't you rather, it kills the dream before you spend a hundred hours on the dream?"
Gina Onativia (08:02):
A hundred percent. Right. I would rather know now, because I've had failures before. I know... Right? So we've all been there, and I was just talking to one of my mentors and she was saying that somebody spent 50,000, one year or whatever and stuff and then they're saying, "Is this, all there is?" And it's like, "You've got to hang in there, you've got to invest." Right? But you also have to do your research-
Salome Schillack (08:26):
Gina Onativia (08:26):
... and you've got to figure out who your audience is, and that niche audience that I know you talk about, that we're not looking for... You love Seth Godin as much as I do, I think Seth Godin and the Master of Marketing and he says, "Don't go for the ocean, go for the swimming pool."
Salome Schillack (08:40):
Gina Onativia (08:40):
Right? You're passionate, freaking swimming pool, that's what you need especially when you're starting out that niche, that passionate corner that you can speak to.
Salome Schillack (08:50):
Gina Onativia (08:50):
Salome Schillack (08:51):
And I see that, especially now in the ads environment as well, where the algorithm doesn't know if it's coming or going, and so the only, the best way to really get in front of people is to be able to speak to that specific person in her language or his language and make them go, "Oh, who is this person reaching out to me through my magnificent phone on this app that where I binge-watch videos." Yeah.
Gina Onativia (09:20):
And then digging, and digging into that pain, I have an example, I have an accelerator student who wants to work with people who they have an unhealthy shopping habit. So I was like, "Oh, explain that to me. What does that look like?" She's like, "Well, there's piles everywhere, first of all, Gina and then when company comes over, you're the person who has to close the door because you have that spare room, that is just crap that you've shopped."
Gina Onativia (09:47):
And I was like, "You're kidding me." And I was like, "What's the lowest point?" And she goes, "When you lie to your husband, because do you lie..." I'm getting chills right now. She's like, "When I lie to my husband about how much I bought." I'm like, "You need to use that on your sales page, that is absolutely genius." Right? And you could feel the pain, you could hear it in her voice and that's speaking to your person, that's the kind of digging you need to do.
Salome Schillack (10:13):
I love that. Yes. That pain and sometimes we can be so close to it when we're still in it.
Gina Onativia (10:23):
Salome Schillack (10:24):
That we can't hear it and we think we, you know when you're... Also, when you're out of it and you're creating a course, you just think about all the things you want to give that person, and all the things that person needs to learn and all the things that person needs to understand, and it's almost hard to learn that restraint, to hold back on what they need and just build that pain and just make them feel really seen and heard, and acknowledged.
Gina Onativia (10:54):
A hundred percent. A hundred percent and then she needs to call those people. Right? And say, "Okay, I understand your challenge." Because she's one of her avatars. Right?
Salome Schillack (11:04):
Gina Onativia (11:05):
And she knows her solution and she's got a system, but will you buy this? Or do you want, I was like, "You got to call and say, do you want a community? Do you want to paid community? Or do you want a program or both, or coaching calls, what is it look like?" Right?
Gina Onativia (11:19):
Find out and dig into that. There's a solution, there's a real challenge, an urgent challenge and a solution that you provide, a unique solution, but she needs to dig in on what does that look in terms of delivery and we need to do that kind of validation.
Salome Schillack (11:34):
Yeah. And the other piece that I say to my students is once you do those calls, I always tell them to transcribe them because in those calls are the exact words they need to use on their sales page, and often if we don't transcribe it, you just try to go off of memory or off of your notes, then you've actually filtered their words through your brain and through the meaning of it.
Gina Onativia (11:55):
I love that.
Salome Schillack (11:57):
And so I have stacks and stacks of transcriptions from calls and I go through it with a highlighter.
Gina Onativia (12:02):
It is so smart. I get so many things transcribed and I oftentimes, you know why? It's from my Tony Robbins days and so Tony would dictate for two hours. Right? So, and if you don't get the detail down and there was no time to go back to the audio or get it transcribed, so we learned to just get the then action item, but I love that tip and I'm going to use it, I'm tell my students to do that because you're exactly right, because we write down what we hear. Right? The actual words that they're using, love that.
Salome Schillack (12:33):
And if you've done a 15 minute call, by the end of 15 minutes you forgot what exactly they said and also because you're coming to it from trying to hear what you want to hear.
Gina Onativia (12:44):
Salome Schillack (12:45):
Gina Onativia (12:46):
You've got some preconceived notions. Right?
Salome Schillack (12:48):
Gina Onativia (12:49):
Okay. I have an expectation that they're going to say this and what nine times out of 10, they turned you upside down.
Salome Schillack (12:54):
Gina Onativia (12:55):
Right? Which is amazing.
Salome Schillack (12:56):
Yeah. We did this with A-lister after the first time I sold it, because A-lister originally was a list building course. Right?
Gina Onativia (13:03):
Salome Schillack (13:03):
And then I did, I got a bunch of the students together in a zoom session and I just did that with him and I was like, "No, but what was your real pain? What was your real pain? What was your real pain?"
Gina Onativia (13:16):
Salome Schillack (13:16):
I didn't, still on the course, I was... Still, on the call I was like, "Yeah. List building, list building, list building." And when I transcribed it and I looked at the sentence that kept coming up, they would say, "I like list building. I don't want to do list building. List building sucks. I'd rather go to the dentist. I'd rather change the tires on my car." And when I said, "What do you want? What do you want? What do you want?" They all said, "I just want to finally find people who wants to buy my thing." And I was like, "Oh you need list building, but you want to find people online who wants to buy your thing." And it made-
Gina Onativia (13:56):
So how to find an ideal student then and convert? Okay, yeah.
Salome Schillack (13:59):
I just want to find people and I was like, "Oh, that's what you want." And we just had to change the promise on that course and then, and add a few bonuses that taught them how to sell for the first time and viola, there you go.
Gina Onativia (14:13):
Such a great example.
Salome Schillack (14:14):
Gina Onativia (14:15):
Right? We have notions or we think, or that might have been accurate two years ago. Right? Or years before that and then, and people shift. Right? Your business shifts.
Salome Schillack (14:27):
Gina Onativia (14:28):
Also, and then-
Salome Schillack (14:29):
A-lister audience is shifting right now, so we're going through that-
Gina Onativia (14:32):
There you go.
Salome Schillack (14:32):
... exact exercise again, to go now-
Gina Onativia (14:35):
Salome Schillack (14:36):
... post COVID.
Gina Onativia (14:37):
Salome Schillack (14:38):
What does she want now?
Gina Onativia (14:40):
Yes. Same thing happened with my accelerator program that I launched before, well, during COVID, during the pandemic and they definitely wanted something different during that and in terms of community and coaching, a hundred percent than where we are today. That is so smart, so just a reminder you got to keep surveying them, you got to keep asking them and having the pulse of where they are.
Salome Schillack (15:01):
Gina Onativia (15:01):
Salome Schillack (15:03):
And it's like an onion, you're just going to peel the layers. You're just, you think, you're going to get there and then you get there and then it changes on you.
Gina Onativia (15:10):
And then changes again and then-
Salome Schillack (15:11):
You got to do your marketing.
Gina Onativia (15:12):
... you're going to do it again. Right?
Salome Schillack (15:13):
Yeah. Exactly, and that's where the growth is.
Gina Onativia (15:16):
And that's why I love doing one-on-one calls too, I still do one-on-one calls, I still do brainstorming calls and things like that because I always learn something new and I get great stories too.
Gina Onativia (15:28):
People, when... Because a lot of times I get, you probably get these calls too, that they tried all these different things. Right? And I tried this and I was like, "Well, where'd you get that?" And it's like, "The interweb." And they tried different and sure enough hit a roadblock or for some reason but it's fascinating to me, the path that different people take, the stories they have.
Salome Schillack (15:51):
Yeah. Yeah. And then you get to use them in your webinar and in your-
Gina Onativia (15:55):
A hundred percent.
Salome Schillack (15:56):
... profile, everywhere. Talking about the course promises, so they start with interviewing people, finding out exactly what, how they describe their pain, how they describe their desires and then getting to a place where you've built the course, but how do you communicate that transformation?
Gina Onativia (16:21):
Yeah. So a lot of times I think another mistake that we make is maybe we do that validation and we're like, "Got it. Got my audience, I know they're going to spend money, I'm just going to go start scripting the thing." Right? I'm just going to dive right in.
Gina Onativia (16:34):
And there's a few more steps that I want you to think about before you just jump in there, and one of them is you're exactly right, the course promise, and I love the course promise because it really drills down on what the result you're providing and that like you said, transformation. Okay?
Gina Onativia (16:48):
And so with the course promise you say, "I'm going to take this person." And be freaking specific. Right? This is, you've done the homework, so you're not just saying a broad, "I'm going to work with a stay at home mom." Okay. Come on, dude that is very broad, does she work? How old are the kids? How much money does she make? What does she really want? Why does she want you?
Gina Onativia (17:12):
Okay, so drill down, so that specific person, your niche your swimming pool, I'm going to take that person from feeling X, so before, and if you've done those calls, you know their lowest of lows. Right? And I should say Salome that people do desire to, so not everything is about a pain point, but usually it's the pain point, so usually we're digging the pain.
Salome Schillack (17:37):
I think the thing with that is they, I think they, we do more to get out of pain than we do.
Gina Onativia (17:42):
Salome Schillack (17:43):
We have, we are more motivated to get out of pain, than we are-
Gina Onativia (17:48):
A hundred percent, to reach our desires.
Salome Schillack (17:49):
... to reach our desires because it's easier to sit on the couch and watch The Boys.
Gina Onativia (17:56):
We're watching The Boys.
Salome Schillack (17:57):
Gina Onativia (17:59):
I know it's so intense.
Salome Schillack (18:00):
I love it when I find another, The Boys fan because that's-
Gina Onativia (18:04):
We'll have to talk about that later.
Salome Schillack (18:04):
... like sick on a unique level. Yes. We, so yeah it's easier to watch The Boys than to-
Gina Onativia (18:12):
Than to take action.
Salome Schillack (18:14):
.... just to get us into our desire but we often move when we're uncomfortable, we move.
Gina Onativia (18:18):
Salome Schillack (18:19):
Gina Onativia (18:19):
Yes. So you're going to take your specific kind of person before and think about the lowest of low's. What do they feel really, frustrated, upset, embarrassed. Think about that person who is hiding things in a spare room and hide it from people coming over. Right? Lowest of low's.
Gina Onativia (18:39):
To where they're going to feel after, release, relief, confident, elation, whatever it is, after you deliver X result. So this is also where the rubber hits the road. I don't know if you use that expression.
Salome Schillack (18:55):
Gina Onativia (18:55):
If these expression, so because you have to give them a specific result. So a lot of times I get course graders that say, "I'm going to show them a way to find happiness in themselves." Okay, that's nice, that's shiny and that's happy, but-
Salome Schillack (19:11):
Okay, that's nice.
Gina Onativia (19:12):
... how are you going to make money? If no one is... Are you going to give them the 90 day plan? And this is like. Right? This is where the specificity comes in. Are you going to teach me? So for the woman who is going to help me stop my poor shopping habits, I'm going to give you a 90 day plan to stop those piles and achieve a happier outcome, and she teach you how to engage with a non-profit, and start engaging with them and donate your things and then start a relationship, and that's her system.
Salome Schillack (19:44):
Gina Onativia (19:44):
Which I love, so I'm going to show you a path to do that. I mean, how much more specific and powerful is that, than saying I'm going to teach you how to clean out your closet.
Salome Schillack (19:54):
Gina Onativia (19:55):
Salome Schillack (19:56):
Gina Onativia (19:56):
Or I'm going to show you a better way to shop.
Salome Schillack (19:59):
Gina Onativia (20:01):
Actually I don't really need that.
Salome Schillack (20:02):
My favorite is I'm going to get you out of the overwhelm.
Gina Onativia (20:06):
Out of the overwhelms. Right and it's all right.
Salome Schillack (20:07):
Gina Onativia (20:09):
Into your car? Where are we going?
Salome Schillack (20:09):
I teach my students overwhelm, it's, nobody's allowed to say overwhelms. Nobody's allowed to use that in topic because that's the lazy word.
Gina Onativia (20:20):
Yeah. No, I drive my students nuts because they know I come, they come to me with an idea, I'm like, "Okay, well we're drilling down on who is this really for? And are they going to pay for it? And then what is that specific result you're going to deliver for that?" And this is by the way where a lot of people get tripped up in this result.
Gina Onativia (20:40):
And they try to do something that's too lofty, that's too big like, "I'm going to give you and its business courses." A lot of times too. Right? "I'm going to give you the total guide to local marketing." It's like, "Holy! That's a lot!" Instead of, "I'm going to give you a quick start to determine your keywords and then maybe a couple of things for that." Right?
Salome Schillack (21:02):
Gina Onativia (21:03):
That to me, that's a more tangible, doable results.
Salome Schillack (21:07):
Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that. I just had that conversation with one of my VIP students where we were going over her $27 offer.
Gina Onativia (21:15):
Salome Schillack (21:16):
That was, fix my period, so she's a naturopath and she works with women with crazy periods. Fix my period.
Gina Onativia (21:26):
For $27, she's going to fix my period?
Salome Schillack (21:26):
$27, you're going to fix your period.
Gina Onativia (21:27):
Salome Schillack (21:27):
Gina Onativia (21:27):
She might get me on the path.
Salome Schillack (21:32):
We just, and I say to her, we can still use the same course. We're just call it something specific, smaller.
Gina Onativia (21:38):
Salome Schillack (21:39):
Gina Onativia (21:41):
Smaller. Right. That seems a little more involved.
Salome Schillack (21:44):
Yeah. It's like the ocean in the world and the like, "Really? I've been dealing with this all my life and you're going to fix it for me at $27?"
Gina Onativia (21:52):
You're going to fix it at five minutes. So right. So same piece supplies, and then, but it goes back to, we feel this imposter syndrome, we feel like we have to give them everything and it's just not true. Start smaller. Think about what's that smaller transformation you could provide for them, then you won't get stuck. So many course creators get stuck because they over promise.
Salome Schillack (22:16):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that over promise because it takes a certain skill to reign back.
Gina Onativia (22:25):
Salome Schillack (22:26):
Gina Onativia (22:27):
Salome Schillack (22:27):
Gina Onativia (22:29):
It is hard. It is hard because we are humans and we are, many of us are over achievers putting courses together in programs, you know this and by nature, we want to deliver the world and it's hard to say, "Okay, you know what? I do need to pull back here a little bit."
Gina Onativia (22:46):
That's hard for any of us, to do and that's why enlist a friend that you trust or a colleague or someone that has the sounding board for you, who can say like, "Why the hell are you doing that? Pull back."
Salome Schillack (23:00):
Gina Onativia (23:01):
So important. I have those friends and I'm sure you do too.
Salome Schillack (23:05):
Mm-hmm. Do you think it's because, do you think it has to do with us not knowing when we start, how to take people on a learning journey?
Gina Onativia (23:17):
That's a good point.
Salome Schillack (23:17):
You think that's why we just want to throw everything at it?
Gina Onativia (23:20):
I think we've, we don't... I think it's a few things, I think it's we don't know any other way, so I think when you have an expertise, you're like, "I'm just going to teach my expertise. Why would I break that down? I'm going to teach my complete guide to Ayurveda." Right?
Gina Onativia (23:38):
My complete 15 pillars. Right? To Ayurveda instead of, well, why not just do a starter school? And that's I had a student do a starter school and then she can go into the cleanses like, "There's so much about Ayurveda I didn't even understand, but there's layers and layers."
Salome Schillack (23:53):
What is that? I don't know what it is.
Gina Onativia (23:55):
Ayurveda is a, oh my gosh, please don't write in if I'm butchering this, but it's an ancient Indian practice and there is yoga and there is a way of eating and there's doshas and I am the worst person to define Ayurveda. You're going to have to put this on the show notes. This is laughable, this is a great story for later. Yeah.
Salome Schillack (24:23):
Okay. Well, I have learned something new that I still don't know-
Gina Onativia (24:26):
I'm sorry, I'm going to look up.
Salome Schillack (24:27):
... what it is, but I have a vague idea. You are not going to teach the course on everything about Ayurveda.
Gina Onativia (24:34):
Ayurveda and I'm not going to show you what dosha and it's all about dosha, and-
Salome Schillack (24:37):
And you're also not going to create the starter course.
Gina Onativia (24:38):
... body types. No, do not look for the Ayurveda, school of thought from Gina Onativia on 2020. Great guys, don't look for it. It's not happening.
Salome Schillack (24:49):
Yeah, but it is those starter courses for our students that work, based when they start.
Gina Onativia (24:54):
Yes. So the... Right. The point, the mistake here is niche like Ayurveda, but the point is start smaller. Right? You don't have to give them the school of everything.
Salome Schillack (25:07):
Yeah. Can you share with us the sticky note strategy for starting small and getting everything out of your head, without throwing the baby and the piano and the kitchen sink at there?
Gina Onativia (25:21):
Yeah. So the posted exercise process, I love doing this with my students and clients, because it does take, it's that O word, takes the overwhelm.
Salome Schillack (25:31):
Gina Onativia (25:33):
Out of course creation.
Salome Schillack (25:34):
We take the overwhelm out, we just don't put it on coffee.
Gina Onativia (25:36):
We can't put it in anything. Right? We can take it out.
Salome Schillack (25:39):
Gina Onativia (25:39):
So because a lot of times what happens is we want to go right into the weeds. Right? So we like, "Okay, so say we do our validation, we have our course promise, then I'm just going to throw out everything against the wall and see what sticks." So with the posted exercise process, you start with the overarching steps.
Gina Onativia (25:58):
The best thing about it is like you're starting with, so say you have, you want a system, you're doing a course, you have some kind of system that works, some kind of process that's why people are going to pay you the big bucks. Right?
Salome Schillack (26:09):
Gina Onativia (26:10):
So I like to say, start with a three, five or seven step system, Tony taught us that. Three, five or seven. Four, four is okay too. So you can three, four, five, seven. Yes. And those are your overarching steps, do not drill down until you know what are... So say we have a five step course.
Gina Onativia (26:30):
Define those five steps first and then you can say, "Okay, did they build on each other? Is this the right path?" Is to your point, is this the right flow? Okay. Then we'll go back to module one, and then what are the videos or the lessons that they need for that? And then we can define those and then go through each module because that enable, that forces you to have parameters and to have a little bit of structure and restraint around, that's the great word, restraint.
Salome Schillack (27:01):
It is. Restraint.
Gina Onativia (27:02):
Around, because we need that when we're organizing our course, because I've seen other training courses. I've seen those 15 module courses that are just out of hand and that is not getting the transformation that your person really needs. You will scare them. They will not complete your course. They will not buy the next thing from you. You will not have a business.
Salome Schillack (27:27):
Yeah. You will be hustling hard, keep making those first sales.
Gina Onativia (27:32):
Yes. And we don't want that. We want you building on your business and doing beautiful things, but keep it simple.
Salome Schillack (27:39):
And getting beautiful testimonials as well.
Gina Onativia (27:41):
Yes. And case studies, we want them getting across the finish line because that's right, that's how you get your case studies, and that's how you get your ambassadors and you're raving fans.
Gina Onativia (27:49):
So you do the posted exercise process to streamline what you're doing, and then really question, "Do I need this for the transformation? Do I need this to get to the course promise?" And if the answer is no, you save it. You save it for something else. You save it for your podcast. You save it for content. You save it for a bonus or your next course.
Salome Schillack (28:10):
I love that. I love that. That's fantastic. Does everything in your content have to contribute to the course promise? Or can the bonuses be part of that?
Gina Onativia (28:23):
Yeah. The bonuses can definitely contribute so they take on objections and I think, and that's such a good question, no one's ever asked me that before and here's the truth. The whole of the experience has to contribute to your course promise and you've got to get there, but listen, I've seen courses where people get to the course promise by module four, and then five is like a whole teaser for the next course, or it's a wrap up or it's stuff you might need to know down the line, 30 days when you trip up.
Gina Onativia (28:55):
Right? But they've already met the course promise, so that's a great question and the answer is, as long as your experience leads to it in some way, then you can have bonuses that lead to it or whatever, there's flexibility in that as long as you're delivering for them.
Salome Schillack (29:10):
Yeah. I love that because even when I'm teaching Facebook ads, Facebook ads in itself is a four or five module training but I don't want to just teach Facebook ads.
Gina Onativia (29:23):
No, of course not.
Salome Schillack (29:23):
I want you... Because nobody just wants Facebook ads, they want to make money.
Gina Onativia (29:31):
Salome Schillack (29:31):
And so then they need to learn how to make money, and that's a whole new module and then they need to learn marketing, and that's a whole new module.
Gina Onativia (29:36):
They need to learn how to develop content or do the tech backend.
Salome Schillack (29:38):
Gina Onativia (29:38):
Or... So much stuff, you could put in a Facebook ads course.
Salome Schillack (29:42):
Yes. Facebook ads is never about Facebook ads, it's about all the other thing.
Gina Onativia (29:47):
You know it's so funny. It's so funny, you bring this up because I was looking at a course the other day, it's a social media course and it is all about building social media. I was thinking to myself, "This course needs some emotion, this course needs some..." Like exactly what you're talking about. Right?
Salome Schillack (30:06):
Gina Onativia (30:08):
It needs other stuff to balance it out. You can't just show me how to set up an account and do all these technical aspects, you lose your people. And that's where you need to weave in stories and richness and examples and those case studies, that's just as important in sharing that, those technical information of setting up Facebook ads. Right? In your backend, how to set up in business manager? It's not just about that, you got to add that emotion to it.
Salome Schillack (30:34):
It's not just about that, and there's a funny, fine line because people, when people feel overwhelmed and they feel stuck, they want the step by step, they want the just show me how to do the thing, but just show me how to do the thing, does not get you the result you want. It just gets you out of sitting feeling overwhelmed about the thing you want.
Gina Onativia (31:00):
Salome Schillack (31:00):
And so, because I remember I signed up for a thousand dollar a month mastermind, from someone who specializes in social media and I remember one day sitting on one of our calls and she did a special demonstration. Here's it, how to do plaid in your Instagram stories?
Gina Onativia (31:22):
I don't even know what that means, should I know what that means?
Salome Schillack (31:24):
So plaid is like this, you know plaid-
Gina Onativia (31:26):
Salome Schillack (31:27):
... the patterns, no. Plaid is like the pattern that Scottish people have on their skirts.
Gina Onativia (31:33):
Salome Schillack (31:33):
Those blocks, that's plaid. So how to create a plaid look on your Instagram story and I remember sitting there going, "Did I pay a thousand dollars-"
Gina Onativia (31:43):
Salome Schillack (31:44):
"... to know how to create plaid on my Instagram story?" Save that, but I'd already... And that was the aha moment for me when I went, "Yes, I signed up for this because I want to learn, how to use social media but for a thousand dollars, teach me how to make money."
Gina Onativia (32:05):
Money on social media.
Salome Schillack (32:07):
Gina Onativia (32:08):
Salome Schillack (32:09):
The plaid is not going to make me money, teach me how to make money.
Gina Onativia (32:13):
The plaid, if you learn nothing else in this episode. The plaid is not going to make you money.
Salome Schillack (32:18):
Plaid is not where the money is at.
Gina Onativia (32:20):
That's incredible. Yeah.
Salome Schillack (32:23):
But that's an important, it was a really big aha for me because I teach something, so Facebook ads is plaid, if you are just learning how to pull levers and how to push buttons, and how to create an image and how to add buttons. There's a whole world of other things out there that you need to know in terms of marketing and funnel building and bringing that audience and that offer, and that launch mechanism together in a profitable way.
Gina Onativia (32:53):
You need to be like an algorithm detective. You need to be a marketing strategist. You need to be all these things like... And that's what you're teaching people, that's where the money is. Right?
Salome Schillack (33:03):
So, that's where the big money is, but that's not necessarily what they come to at the start. They don't come and say, "Make me an algorithm detective." They're like, "Oh, I don't want anything to do with the algorithm, algorithm sucks."
Gina Onativia (33:16):
It does suck.
Salome Schillack (33:16):
Anyway, we digress-
Gina Onativia (33:18):
No. So I would do... You were saying that they don't go to how to something. Right? So this is between a YouTube video and your course.
Salome Schillack (33:28):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gina Onativia (33:29):
They were just going to figure out, I have a course on courses. Right? What should I do? They can just Google how to do a course outline and they can just watch a YouTube video. But if you want to hear case studies, if you want a journey, if you want a flow to a transformation and that emotion and the stories, you buy the freaking course. You're taking them on a journey, otherwise it would just Google, YouTube videos. That's one of the differences.
Salome Schillack (33:55):
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes that journey is not necessarily equal to what they come to you for the first, in the first place and there's mastery in being able to attract them to what they want, and then giving them what they need in order to get what they really want.
Gina Onativia (34:11):
Yes, which... Right. Really what's their outcome.
Salome Schillack (34:14):
Gina Onativia (34:14):
Salome Schillack (34:14):
Gina Onativia (34:15):
Salome Schillack (34:15):
So once you have your course outlined, you've got your sticky notes on your wall, you've got your five or four or three or six or seven modules and you've put your lessons in there. How do you, so now you have an idea of your course, but you want to build your audience. So you're going to start with a lead magnet. How do you know what lead magnet to pull out of there?
Gina Onativia (34:40):
Yeah. Such a great question because I've seen a lot of misleading lead magnets. Right? That either I think a big mistake is people satiate too much, they have a topic of a lead magnet that's their course. No, no, no, no. So don't do that, don't over satiate your audience because they won't buy. Right? A satiated audience is not buying.
Gina Onativia (35:01):
So I like to teach that where do they need to be in order for you to then sell them into your program? So I know before the show we were talking about, I have a student, accelerator student who teaches you how to convert to a vegan diet or just get comfortable with it. And she gets a lot of people who are older and there's maybe they have heart disease. Right? And their doctor is saying you got to switch things up.
Gina Onativia (35:26):
My husband is, he's having trouble with his liver right now, so we're kind of in process on this too and she, I said a great lead magnet for her is five ways to try out a vegan diet or a week with a vegan diet and just try it out. Right?
Salome Schillack (35:44):
Yeah, that sounds safe.
Gina Onativia (35:45):
Just try it on, try it on and because part of that lead magnet is getting somebody to dip their toe in the water. And because by the time you get to selling your course, you don't want to convince somebody that vegan diets are the way to go. No, no, no, no.
Gina Onativia (36:02):
So maybe they're dipping their toe in with your lead magnet. Okay, a week and then maybe you're doing a challenge, where you challenge them to take even more, like your cleaning out your closet, maybe cleaning out your cabinet and you are doing swaps and it's more intense, then that goes into that vegan diet lifestyle course.
Salome Schillack (36:21):
Gina Onativia (36:21):
Now you're ready. We, our job as marketers in the lead magnet is to take the first step and to get them ready to buy.
Salome Schillack (36:29):
I love that. Yeah. I love that and so if you think about that in terms of that problem aware, solution aware, sort of journey that they go on, you don't ever want to be selling to people who are not problem aware, you do not want to have to teach people-
Gina Onativia (36:43):
Oh, I love that problem aware.
Salome Schillack (36:46):
... that they have a problem, they have to be acutely aware that they have a problem so the doctor has told you, you are going to die unless you switch to vegan, they are acutely problem aware.
Gina Onativia (36:58):
Salome Schillack (36:59):
They are solution aware because they know the solution is a vegan diet, but they're not yet, her solution aware, they don't know about her. Now-
Gina Onativia (37:09):
Salome Schillack (37:09):
... there's, they can go to Google and search 7,000 different solutions but they're probably going to walk away feeling overwhelmed, and then they're just going to close the computer and go and cry because they have to give up their beloved meat.
Gina Onativia (37:23):
Salome Schillack (37:23):
But if she can take them on that little journey from being solution aware, to becoming familiar with her solution, that seven days to becoming vegan or seven days to [crosstalk 00:37:36].
Gina Onativia (37:35):
Trying out, trying it on.
Salome Schillack (37:37):
And it's so nonthreatening and it's small, so they know they can achieve it and then suddenly if you can, show them a win there, now they're sold.
Gina Onativia (37:50):
Yeah. I love that. And this is where niche is important too. Right? So she's not trying to convince 20-ish girls to go vegan. She knows her person's over 45, they're at a risk. Right? Maybe over 50 and maybe it's for the men, but we're the women the lives are going to buy it. Right? So we've got to speak to them but then you're also speaking to the men. So this is why the niche is so important.
Gina Onativia (38:14):
And then they're going to be resistant. They're going to be, they're not the type of people who are trying out different diets, this person. Right? So, but that's part of the criteria, do they like paleo? Do they know this? No. Okay. There's trying something, there are meat and potatoes people. Right? And that's important, those kind of details to know, and then you speak to them. You say, "Okay." And you start slowly with them and then you get them down the line, but I love what you're saying is that problem aware, you're right.
Gina Onativia (38:42):
So it's the same thing with personal development courses. Right? So you want them to know, you want them to be aware that they are ready for change or they're thinking about change, and then maybe they read your lead magnet or they watch your training, maybe you have a mini course and they say like, "I can do this." Because that's the other thing. Right? You want them saying, "I can do this."
Salome Schillack (39:01):
I can do this. Yeah.
Gina Onativia (39:02):
I can do this. I can, I might be able to build a course. Right? So by the time they get to me, I'm not convincing them that they can build, that they have a course inside of them. Right?
Salome Schillack (39:12):
Gina Onativia (39:12):
Yeah. They're ready.
Salome Schillack (39:14):
Gina Onativia (39:14):
So I just... You're absolutely right. I just got to convince them that I'm the girl for them.
Salome Schillack (39:17):
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Gina Onativia (39:19):
Salome Schillack (39:19):
And that the time is now. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love that. That is fantastic. Gina, I know you and I can geek out on this all day.
Gina Onativia (39:28):
All night, like all night.
Salome Schillack (39:30):
All day, all night we can keep going, but I just want to say thank you to you for being here and sharing your magic, you have so much magic to give. Where can listeners learn more about you?
Gina Onativia (39:40):
Yeah. So I would love for you to check out my podcast and you need to be on, by the way we'll talk about that after.
Salome Schillack (39:45):
Oh yeah, that's okay.
Gina Onativia (39:47):
So Course Creation Incubator, you go to coursecreationboutique.com/podcast. Check it out, listen in, if you want more course creation tips I'm really-
Salome Schillack (39:55):
That is fantastic. I love that. You will find all of that in the show notes so you can check that out and go and listen to Gina's podcast because she drops as much gold as I do.
Gina Onativia (40:06):
Aw, absolutely. I'll try, I'll try. Yes.
Salome Schillack (40:10):
We both. I think we do okay. Thank you so much, Gina. I really appreciate you being here.
Gina Onativia (40:16):
Such a pleasure. Thanks so much Salome.
Salome Schillack (40:19):
Well there you have it, I trust you got so much value out of my conversation with Gina. I really could talk to her all day about online courses.
Salome Schillack (40:39):
If you loved this episode and you are a committed online course launcher who wants to learn how to grow your profits in your next course launch, and you want to know how to successfully scale your online courses business to seven figures and beyond, then I'd love to see you inside the Launch Lounge. The Launch Lounge is the only community online that is dedicated solely to helping you develop every aspect of your online courses business, so that you can build your business to scale with no one size fits all solutions, just the right education you need when you need it, coaching from our team of experts in different areas of launching and scaling and the best community on the internet. The Launch Lounge is your online course building home if you want profitable launches that scale your business to seven figures and beyond. To get on the wait list for our next enrollment season, go to shineandsucceed.com/launch. Thank you so much for listening. If you had fun, please come back next week and remember to hit that subscribe button, so you never miss a thing.